exactly, Dru. That and all the wonderful mini-games and confusing but gripping storyline.
It seems to me that the entire purpose of this thread is so you guys can drool over the game some more without saying anything that’s actually meaningful. And you do realize we can anally rape the game some more by just copying and pasting from the other thread, don’t you?
….I don’t know about you, but I speak ENGLISH. I have no idea whether you just gave FFVII a compliment or dissed it. I seriously have no idea. Also…
And so far you’ve failed to say anything convincing. The other thread has addressed all this.
It seems to me that the entire purpose of this thread is so you guys can drool over the game some more without saying anything that’s actually meaningful. And you do realize we can anally rape the game some more by just copying and pasting from the other thread, don’t you?
You do realize that we can do exactly the same thing to you, don’t you? And as for you "covering all this", I read the other thread. It’s lame. It has a point, but everyone uses circular reasoning there. Completely without proof or reason. You state something, leave it at that, and expect everyone to accept it as fact. Now, maybe if you could actually back ANY of your opinions up with fact, then maybe FFVII fans would go "Hey, maybe they’re right. Maybe FFVII does suck, and we’ve ignored it all along." But, you don’t. You argue, and claim to be right no matter what. Guess what? FFVII has the biggest fanbase, which is still continuing to grow to this day. The battle system was simple and immediately playable, while maintaining a great deal of depth. The moves and spells available to you were many, but all easily accessable. The story and music blended together to emotionally involve the player to a degree that few games have improved upon. This was helped by the producer channeling his own emotions through the game, making it more real, easier to feel and sympathize. That is the main draw of the game. True, the non-battle mode character models need some work, but the CGI and battle-mode (NBM) models were excellent for the day. Aside from that, FFVII was one of the games that helped pull not only RPGs into the mainstream, but 3-D gaming as a whole as well. So, the NBM models weren’t the primary concern then. The story, music, and gameplay were, and that’s what made the game so amazing. Now, I’m not saying that any Final Fantasy is bad (except maybe Crystal Chronicles). In fact, I like them all very much. FFVII just happens to be my favorite. Don’t like that? Too bad. It ain’t changing. I don’t care that you don’t like (or really loath/hate) FFVII, what I care about is your asshole attitudes that everyone who is a big FFVII fan is inferior to you for some reason. With a few exceptions, they’re not. Get over it. In short, I am sick of your bashing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you guys have crossed the line. Your arguments are so weak, flawed, and without merit that you have to resort to bashing the players themselves (which I guess I just did, with the exception that my argument is none of the above, so don’t try and say I contradicted myself). Mm’kay? Good.
It IS a great game because it’s the best character design in all Final Fantasys.
An anime fan(I would think) is a Final Fantasy VII fan!
If you like anime character designs.
If you want to try debating the issue, come to the real thread. I’m leaving this one for the kiddies to play in.
yea i just got here, so i checked this thread out real quick, i would look at the other one, but i’m too lazy to read 15+ pages of that. but what is that guy talking about, you did bash him a bit n all, but you stated quite a few reasons why you like the game and what makes it a good game. does he just not read certain things?
Seriously, if all you can do is name aspects of the game, and expect people to think that makes the game good you’re going to fail miserably. Try going into some actual details. Like an actual situation in the game where the Materia System really shines, or music, or graphics or story/plotline.
Give Details! Or don’t bother arguing!
Seriously, if all you can do is name aspects of the game, and expect people to think that makes the game good you’re going to fail miserably. Try going into some actual details. Like an actual situation in the game where the Materia System really shines, or music, or graphics or story/plotline.
Give Details! Or don’t bother arguing!
the materia system is actually pretty dam cool. you can set it up with counter materias and a bunch of the same magics, like lightning materia. like using counter,command counter, magic counter, quadra magic, and a bunch of lightning materia, and thers tons of other ways and stuff to do it. and when you get hit, your character will automatically counter attack, counterattack with a deathblow, and counter by using lightning or watever magic 4 times…8 times if you level up ur quadra magic. and then theres the double cut, which is rediculous. i leveled it up to a 4x hit, and with cloud at full life with ultima weapon, one regular turn does 35-40 thousand hp of damage
Also, in Valkyrie Profile you had the ability to spend your EXP points to increase individual stats as you saw fit, and learn spells, etc. much like in FF Tactics. Again, storyline and music that pwns FF7.
And you’re still being pretty damn general concerning the materia system. The major complaint given is that there is no unique ability for any character where magic is concerned because anyone can become anything when it comes to magic and the vast majority of the abilities in the game.
Limit Breaks were discussed as being pretty pointless because they disabled your normal attack command, thus making it where you have to waste the Limit on a weaker enemy, or waste MP on said weaker enemy in favor of saving it for a later battle. Not to mention the limits themselves getting to be pretty old-hat after the first few uses.
And the storyline is only "deep" and "complex" if you’ve never read any good books in your entire life. And speaking of which, FF7’s storyline would only make a marginal paperback series in terms of quality–much like the DOOM novels and Aliens vs. Predator. Nowhere near the caliber of such greats as Dune or Lord of the Rings or The Neuromancer (sp? Been ages since I read that one).
Basically, FF7 is not all that damn good, nor is there that much replay value as the game was pretty damn linear throughout–sidequests included.
If you want to try debating the issue, come to the real thread. I’m leaving this one for the kiddies to play in.
ya know, Prak, I knew you’d come in here and try and dis FFVII all the way to hell, but face it, there’s more people on this site that like FFVII over all the others, jsut look at the post count for the FFVII forums!! Ha, take that! 🙁
And we’ve addressed the popularity of the game in the other thread…
And we’ve addressed the popularity of the game in the other thread…
Sorry, but 6 pages at the most is sufficient to absolutely prove why in your opinion, FFVII is not good, why it even downright sucks. 15+ pages? Now that is just relentlessly bashing. I have no idea what you have against FFVII (c’mon, it’s obvious you do. And "it sucks" is not an answer!), and actually I don’t care. But there’s something about it you obviously loathe. So, what IS your goal in bashing it? Just curious.
Consider this an outside observation of what is being said:
I believe he has just as much right to talk about why he doesn’t like it as you have to talk about why you do. From what I’ve seen he does a much better job at backing up what he says than you do, which really gives him more of a reason to ask you what your goal is in constantly repeating the same thing that he has disproved over and over.
ADVICE?
FUCK RIGHT OFF AND DON’T COME BACK.
So once they hit 6 pages they can’t respond to the FF7 fans that come in and post?
They don’t just say "It sucks", if you actually read the topic, or at least one of their main posts, they do come out with some pretty good arguments. You just don’t seem to read anything except your own posts. If you call something like this:
You do realize that we can do exactly the same thing to you, don’t you? And as for you "covering all this", I read the other thread. It’s lame. It has a point, but everyone uses circular reasoning there. Completely without proof or reason. You state something, leave it at that, and expect everyone to accept it as fact. Now, maybe if you could actually back ANY of your opinions up with fact, then maybe FFVII fans would go "Hey, maybe they’re right. Maybe FFVII does suck, and we’ve ignored it all along." But, you don’t. You argue, and claim to be right no matter what. Guess what? FFVII has the biggest fanbase, which is still continuing to grow to this day. The battle system was simple and immediately playable, while maintaining a great deal of depth. The moves and spells available to you were many, but all easily accessable. The story and music blended together to emotionally involve the player to a degree that few games have improved upon. This was helped by the producer channeling his own emotions through the game, making it more real, easier to feel and sympathize. That is the main draw of the game. True, the non-battle mode character models need some work, but the CGI and battle-mode (NBM) models were excellent for the day. Aside from that, FFVII was one of the games that helped pull not only RPGs into the mainstream, but 3-D gaming as a whole as well. So, the NBM models weren’t the primary concern then. The story, music, and gameplay were, and that’s what made the game so amazing. Now, I’m not saying that any Final Fantasy is bad (except maybe Crystal Chronicles). In fact, I like them all very much. FFVII just happens to be my favorite. Don’t like that? Too bad. It ain’t changing. I don’t care that you don’t like (or really loath/hate) FFVII, what I care about is your asshole attitudes that everyone who is a big FFVII fan is inferior to you for some reason. With a few exceptions, they’re not. Get over it. In short, I am sick of your bashing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you guys have crossed the line. Your arguments are so weak, flawed, and without merit that you have to resort to bashing the players themselves (which I guess I just did, with the exception that my argument is none of the above, so don’t try and say I contradicted myself). Mm’kay? Good.
a "good argument" in favor of FF7, I laugh at you.
1) They don’t bash the players, they bash their refusal to even reading their logical arguments and make an articulate reply.
2) you said the battle system was simple and yet had depth. If you want them to back their statements up with fact, BACK YOURS UP! Why is this so?
3) "The producers channeled their emotions into the game." wtf does that mean? I don’t know because you didn’t explain this claim or give FACTual examples. Explain how FF7 was "more real, easier to feel and sympathize" than whatever you are comparing it to (which isn’t clear)
4) "FF7 has lots of fans, so it’s right." Personally I do not base my opinions on the simple fact that lots of other people have a certain opinion. You can, but I prefer to have REASONS. It is my opinion that the majority of the American population (I have no experience with other populations) is greatly influenced by simple advertising. How do you find out about a product but advertising (not 100%, but a great deal)? FF7 was heavily advertised as "must-have" so therefore a lot of people knew about it. If more people know about a game, than more people will buy it, even if the same percentage buy it as that of a better, less-well known game (Prince of Persia was a great game that came out a little while ago, but it was not heavily advertised, so less people knew about it, so less people bought it. And being based on a movie IS advertising, as in the case of Lord of the Rings). Also, it is my opinion that the general population of America is stupider than me, so why should I blindly accept their opinion? I am not talking about this board, but simply people in general.
I didn’t mean for this to be so long, especially since I have never played FF7. I am not making a judgement on it, just that I have seen those opposed to it making better arguments. I note the difference in post count between the yea’s and the nay’s (Two people that are opposed to FF7 have about 3000 posts, compared to about 30 or 50).
Also, This is not the topic where they are bashing FF7. Here, they are simply saying that they are doing it in the other, older thread. If you want to debate them you should focus on that thread (I have seen some of your replies in that thread, and they need more development). As of yet I haven’t seen anyone saying WHY parts of FF7 are good in this thread. Only that the posters think there are parts that are good.
thats why they do it, because the majority of the responses are like that, just telling them to shut up and not really counter them with decent arguments. I’m not saying i agree with them, i like the game, but i’m also to lazy and don’t really come on here enough to bother getting caught up in a huge debate over this. although i will say that they don’t seem to give much credit to the occasional decent arguments for the game being good either.
Care to give an example of a good argument?
Seriously, I have yet to see one on the part of an FFVII fan. All I see are the same arguments people give trying to say that DBZ is a good anime, when it obviously isn’t.
"It’s so creative/cool/OMGZ awesome graphics/kickass story/blahblahblah"
Also, they haven’t said FFVII sucks, they’ve just said it isn’t worthy of the hideous fandom worship it gets.
I’m the one that said it sucked, though. And none of you have proven that wrong, either.
Seriously, I have yet to see one on the part of an FFVII fan. All I see are the same arguments people give trying to say that DBZ is a good anime, when it obviously isn’t.
"It’s so creative/cool/OMGZ awesome graphics/kickass story/blahblahblah"
Also, they haven’t said FFVII sucks, they’ve just said it isn’t worthy of the hideous fandom worship it gets.
I’m the one that said it sucked, though. And none of you have proven that wrong, either.
Tbh, no one is wrong whether it sucks or not. It’s an opinion and an opinion cannot be proven wrong because there is no right or wrong opinion, because an opinion is completley different from a fact right?
I like it not because the graphics were better, but because it’s the closest one to Japanese animation. The graphics caught everone’s eye, while it was the anime look that made me like it. I may be like everyone else liking it, but a totally different reason.
I don’t even care what RM thinks about FFVII. That’s his opinion and I can accept that.
The one thing offensive that he said was " It sickens me seeing all these FFVII fangirls and fanboys… so and so", that’s like bashing the FFVII fans. It’s like, "well excuse me for liking something alittle popular", I’m not mad at him, but I just don’t like it. Oh well.
I like it not because the graphics were better, but because it’s the closest one to Japanese animation. The graphics caught everone’s eye, while it was the anime look that made me like it. I may be like everyone else liking it, but a totally different reason.
I don’t even care what RM thinks about FFVII. That’s his opinion and I can accept that.
The one thing offensive that he said was " It sickens me seeing all these FFVII fangirls and fanboys… so and so", that’s like bashing the FFVII fans. It’s like, "well excuse me for liking something alittle popular", I’m not mad at him, but I just don’t like it. Oh well. Exactly
I agree with RM there though. I’m not sure exactly what he said, because I don’t feel like scavenging through the other thread to look for it. But it personally sickens me to see how the majority, and probably most, of the FFVII fans act. In short, they <B>act</B> like complete retards.
Gene Starwind
SEXY BEAST!!!!
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: wouldn’t you like to know
Posts: 8
I rest my case, you fucking penis.
Yet the people that feel it is their job to defend FFVII with their life (like you) seem to feel that if another person doesn’t like the game it is the end of the world. And for the record, many people have backed up their opinions with well thought out arguments and facts when they say that FFVII is a bad game. I have only seen ONE person present a good argument as to why FFVII could be considered a good game and it sure as hell wasn’t anyone that posted in this thread.
FF 7 became a classic and I think that all games that can stand the test of time while still being enjoyed over the world can be called a really good game.
Sure you can go into details like "good matieraia stgas system" or whatever but basically the game in its entirety is unmatched so far according to me, at least for console RPGs :P.
By the way, you blew it by stating it as your opinion. We’re dealing in fact, which always trumps opinions.
Also, in Valkyrie Profile you had the ability to spend your EXP points to increase individual stats as you saw fit, and learn spells, etc. much like in FF Tactics. Again, storyline and music that pwns FF7.
And you’re still being pretty damn general concerning the materia system. The major complaint given is that there is no unique ability for any character where magic is concerned because anyone can become anything when it comes to magic and the vast majority of the abilities in the game.
Limit Breaks were discussed as being pretty pointless because they disabled your normal attack command, thus making it where you have to waste the Limit on a weaker enemy, or waste MP on said weaker enemy in favor of saving it for a later battle. Not to mention the limits themselves getting to be pretty old-hat after the first few uses.
And the storyline is only "deep" and "complex" if you’ve never read any good books in your entire life. And speaking of which, FF7’s storyline would only make a marginal paperback series in terms of quality–much like the DOOM novels and Aliens vs. Predator. Nowhere near the caliber of such greats as Dune or Lord of the Rings or The Neuromancer (sp? Been ages since I read that one).
Basically, FF7 is not all that damn good, nor is there that much replay value as the game was pretty damn linear throughout–sidequests included.
BOW TO ODIN!
Just like everyone else you’re not giving specific examples.
I’ve already touched on this a few times. There isn’t a huge fanbase with the game because it is good or not; It’s because the game was marketed more than any in history.
The issue isn’t whether you like it or not. The issue is the quality of the game. No one has a problem with you liking it.
And besides, no one’s been calling people stupid for liking a game. Those of us who dislike the game respect the right of others to enjoy it. We merely point out ways in which the game is overrated.
However, the game "itself" is so-so. The translation from Jap to Eng was pretty dismal in some parts and with the materia system, even though I actually liked it, it does remove the unique abilities of the characters when you reach high levels. The possibility to soup up Barret to max magic stats is a sure sign.
Limit Breaks, well I personally didn’t find it a problem.
Don’t take it wrong, I LOVE the game but I do know its faults.
Gosh, this is just like Midtown Madness 2, another game I love. It has a very good concept but the gfx engine is crap and it has a LOT of crash spots, therefore the game "itself" is crap.
I’m too scared to even attempt to post any kind of Pro Final Fantasy remarks.
Then I realized why. Because there’s no way I can give you guys what you want. You’re right. FF VII is a shitty game. I don’t know why I like it. I just do.
You know, I hardly know the story behind Final Fantasy VII. Well, I know a little. I’ve played through the game quite a few times, but I was a little kid. I never payed any attention to any of the story. I just played the game. I didn’t know what I was doing. I just kept playing.
I started playing through all my Final Fantasies again recently. Now that I’m older, I understand the story lines better and getting stoned really makes the game alot better. There’s just something about that cheesy/kiddy fantasy world that just makes you wanna be a part of it. At least, that’s how I get when I play it or whenever I’m thinking about it. It’s kinda like a rediculous bedtime story or something that is fun to be a part of. Especially with these forums. I love to talk to other people about the game and I especially love it when we all agree that it’s really awesome. Maybe it has to do with some kind of reassurance (sp) problem.
I think they should have remade FF VII on the PS2 platform with improved graphics and maybe some voice acting, but who doesn’t?
Chickens eh? :coolegg:
I believe he has just as much right to talk about why he doesn’t like it as you have to talk about why you do. From what I’ve seen he does a much better job at backing up what he says than you do, which really gives him more of a reason to ask you what your goal is in constantly repeating the same thing that he has disproved over and over.
I’m not saying that it’s a great sin or crime to dislike, hate, or loathe FFVII. All I’m saying is that there is a point when talking about one’s extreme dislike in horrible ways stops being a valid, logical conversation and becomes desperate attempt to prove a point that was already made. or was it? You continue to dodge my question, and try to shut me down. Why? Might I actually be on to something? Is it just that you really don’t have an answer? Why don’t you try and prove how much better another Final Fantasy game is? Oh, and trust me, it was NOT the most marketed game ever. There have been bigger games out there. Granted, it WAS the biggest up until that point, but it is no more. To me, marketing didn’t even touch me. When I first saw Ads for the game I thought it looked stupid. A few years, I randomly bought the game and loved it, not realizing what it was. Despite my initial negativity toward the game, it still ended up being my favorite game ever. I have since proceeded to play every other Final Fantasy. I enjoyed each one very much. However, none bring me into the story and addict me quite like VII. It’s all a matter of opinion. No one seems to realize that, or care. So, no matter how all you FFVII haters bombard FFVII, at some point you’re going to waste your time. Insulting over 7 million people, trying to convince them they’re wrong, that there’s a better way, it’s just stupid. It’s like the RIAA trying to sue all the people who download free music. It’s stupid. It failed. As for you backing up statements better than me, give me one, ONE single quote of yours to prove it. You say you do, but do you really? Let’s find out, shall we?
I know you aren’t talking to me, but what questions are you talking about? I honestly don’t remember you asking us to answer anything or prove anything, and it’s pretty obvious that you and most of the other Final Fantasy fans are just saying the same two or three statements over and over again, and then retreating to another dark corner of the FFVII forum.
<B>Why don’t you try and prove how much better another Final Fantasy game is?</B>
Because this is the FFVII forum, and it doesn’t belong here.
<B>Oh, and trust me, it was NOT the most marketed game ever. There have been bigger games out there. Granted, it WAS the biggest up until that point, but it is no more.</B>
My friend, FFVII is the most advertised and hyped game in history. Want additional proof?
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children
Final Fantasy VII: Before Crisis
Final Fantasy VII: Crisis Core
Final Fantasy VII: Dirge of Cerebrus
And why does Square keep going alphabetically with AC, BC, CC, and DC?
<B>It’s all a matter of opinion. No one seems to realize that, or care.</B>
I’m sorry, but I fail to see anywhere in this thread, or the actual one, that states we don’t care about your opinion. We may not care about what you have to say, because it is most likely going to end up like all the other baseless statements. But I for one respect your opinion, rather or not it’s actually a cogent one.
<B>So, no matter how all you FFVII haters bombard FFVII, at some point you’re going to waste your time. Insulting over 7 million people, trying to convince them they’re wrong, that there’s a better way, it’s just stupid.</B>
You aren’t helping the situation. You are trying to make the image of FFVII non-fans appear as if they totally hate and want to destroy the game, and all of it’s followers. For once in your life, acknowledge that we are just simply not fans of the game. And what is this 7 million people number? If you are using that as evidence to try and say the game is great, then it’s not that credible. And another thing, we aren’t trying to convince you guys that we are wrong; Just simply stating our opinions, like you are.
<B>As for you backing up statements better than me, give me one, ONE single quote of yours to prove it. You say you do, but do you really? Let’s find out, shall we?</B>
Once again, I know you aren’t talking to me, but when you compare the credible statements/evidence/proof that FFVII non-fans have come up with against what you fans have come up with, there is just simply no comparison. We have bombarded you with a ton more information than you have provided. It’s rather ignorant and hilarious if you still believe you guys have come up with better arguments than us.
Because this is the FFVII forum and that doesn’t belong here
Correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t writing a topic saying ff7 isn’t a good game irrelevant to this forum
I’ll correct you, cause you are wrong.
In the FFVII forum, you can write about how much the game is good and not good. If you are saying that all comments that poke fun of the game don’t belong here, then I’ll say that every good comment about FFVII doesn’t belong either.
Another pathetic example
HAH! I laugh at you! I am giddy with laughter! I am absolutely taken in by your foolishness! Haven’t you anything better to say? If it’s so pathetic, then you come up with something better! Oh? What’s that? You say you can’t? Gee, I never saw that one coming. None of you can proove a single thing you say. Yeah, see, you CAN’T provide a quote where some FF basher says something intelligible, because there aren’t any. You say that’s you can’t proove another game is better, simply because it’s not FFVII? Wow, what a suprise. How cowardly of you. What do you have to be afraid of? NOTHING, SO DO IT! And I again ask the question, what is your purpose of bashing FFVII? I don’t care what the answer is, I just want to know. And I say things repeatedly because they are:
A) Ignored
B) That’s all there is to say
C) Some people just don’t quite grasp it the first time through
D) FFVII-bashers do the same thing. Face it, you do.
Oh, and Metal Gear Solid 2 was hyped like no game before it. Also, I saw WAAAAY more ads for MGS2 than FFVII, or ANY FF game, for that matter. I also respect your opinions, but some individuals here have (and I WILL find quotes of this) insulted FFVII fans, which is not simply stating a harmless opinion about a game. Also, if you’re not trying to proove us wrong, then why do you so valiantly argue about how the game is so horrible? You have said my statements are baseless, but they are not. Everything I have said here is rooted in the fact that I hold a high opinion of FFVII, and there’s nothing wrong with that. I have long ago accepted the fact that you aren’t FFVII fans. Nothing wrong with that. Nothing at all. Actually, I never really thought you were FFVII fans in the first place. See, we don’t care about what each other has to say. I’m going to post this, then someone else will find a way to try and disprove it all in some ridiculous, basless fashion, then someone else will argue that, and then someone will attack that, and then another advocate will attempt a smiting of FFVII, and so on and so on… Everyone is still missing the point that it’s all about opinion. You’ve said with conviction and brutality that you hate FFVII. Okay. You’ve merely stated your opinion now. And we’ve stated ours, but you don’t care about ours. You state your opnions, and when we reply to yours with ours you make some desperate, bassless attempt to disprove it. See, if you were merely stating your opinion, then all this would’ve been over by now. I’m not trying to say that you’re wrong about the game. No one is, simply by the FACT that it’s a matter of opinion. You do tend to be assholes about it, though. That’s what I’m trying to say.
So very…very…tired…
compared to the other thread, I have said basically nothing in this one. All my content is in that thread. And you want something better?
<A HREF="http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=276908&postcount=197">Here</A>
Now, that is what you would call a good argument against the game.
<B>You say that’s you can’t proove another game is better, simply because it’s not FFVII? Wow, what a suprise. How cowardly of you. What do you have to be afraid of? NOTHING, SO DO IT!</B>
Are you that igorant to realize the point of this thread and the real one is not to prove a game is better than FFVII. It’s to show what makes the game good or bad, and it’s rather sad that you haven’t realized that yet after all this.
<B>And I again ask the question, what is your purpose of bashing FFVII? I don’t care what the answer is, I just want to know.</B>
You don’t care what the answer is, but you still want to know? Right.
Anywho, after the first thread was made, I felt like adding my two cents and then some. It’s not often that someone makes a negative thread about the game, so I figured I’d go ahead and put my thoughts in. That’s the purpose of me "bashing" the game, because that is what the original thread was about; stuff that made FFVII bad.
<B>Also, if you’re not trying to proove us wrong, then why do you so valiantly argue about how the game is so horrible? You have said my statements are baseless, but they are not.</B>
Don’t you understand yet? I’m not trying to prove you wrong. I simply state my beliefs and try to win the debate that I’m right. That’s what you do in threads like these; Both sides share their stories, and then they talk about it to see who can provide the better backup.
<B>You’ve said with conviction and brutality that you hate FFVII.</B>
Sorry, but you are wrong. I’ve never said with conviction and brutality that I hate the game.
<B>And we’ve stated ours, but you don’t care about ours.</B>
Like I said, I respect people’s opinons. But I honestly don’t care what most FFVII fans have to say, because I’ve heard the same shit over and over and over again. And after a few years of it, you tend to just ignore them and ride them off. When I actually read a good post about good qualities about the game, then I’ll pay attention to it.
<B>You do tend to be assholes about it, though. That’s what I’m trying to say.</B>
Oh really? That <I>may</I> be true in some cases, because if you could actually see how sick and tired we all are of having all these FFVII fans praise the game so much without nothing to back that up with, then you might change your view about that.
Master Nabeshin, you’re a real defender of FFVII, I respect that. You’re a cool guy. (by the way, thanks) ^_^
Uh I’m sorry, but I’m pretty sure I’ve never called you or anyone else pathetic. I have said I think it’s pathetic how some FFVII fans act, not how they are. It’s a big difference. I just don’t realize how you can think I called you pathetic for anything?
<B>Final Fantasy VII is great because it makes the player realize some things. It makes him realize that not every story can have a happy end. FFVII shows us how reality looks like. In a lot of games and movies alike, the hero of the story loves someone so much that he sacrifices his own life to save the life of the beloved person to express this love, and sometimes he dies. What I’m trying to say is that FFVII gives us a feeling of reality – so many people in FFVII had their lives ruined, even the main characters of FFVII, Cloud, Aeris, Zack, Tifa and others. In most movies and games, everyone is happy in the end, and everything’s fine. But FFVII is not like that. It teaches us the cruelness of the world and fate.</B>
I have to say it, but I have no idea what you are talking about. You say there are a lot of games, the hero/main character sometimes sacrifices his life to save the one he loves? That’s just wholly wrong, unless you can provide a good list of games that have this aspect.
And I refuse to accept FFVII is good because it makes you "realize some things".
Next please
I have only one thing to say…
Just wait for Prak.
All I have to say on the matter by now is that this discussion is not about whether people like the game or not. It is about the game’s quality, not peoples’ impressions of it. And despite what some desperate people keep exclaiming, quality is not open to interpretation. Technical merits can easily be clearly defined and they form the basis of many of our arguments.
We’ve said many times before that we have no problem with people liking FFVII. We just have a problem with people giving it undue credit. It is not the greatest game ever made, even if it does happen to be your favorite.
And Master Nabeshin, we’ve proved almost every damn thing we’ve said. If you want anyone to buy your infantile line about us making stupid unprovable statements, then give an example of it. Come on, just one thing that we stated as fact and failed to back up. Or can you not back up your own ridiculous unprovable statements?
Wow, thanks for coming to play, Prak. Change your mind? Oh, and yes, I will prove it. I choose my battles very carefully. I don’t jump into meaningless arguments unless I can win.
But, I feel I must thank your for clarifying all this. If it is merely about the technical aspects of the game, then yes. The graphics do suck. No denying that. But, Super Mario Bros. had sucky graphics, and that sure didn’t stop people from playing it. The quality of the music is a pain on the ears. MIDI music does that. However, the orchestrated versions show off the quality of the composition of the peices. The battle system’s a bit rusty. There are better, more complex, yet easier to use battle systems today. But, show me a better system from before then, or even from the same day. Some of the translations were rough. So, technically speaking, yes, the game sucks by today’s standards. But, by today’s standards, the only ones that DON’T suck technically are FFX ( and X-2) and FFXI. So, if this is what all this is about, then okay. You were a bit unclear about that. See, if you had said all that from the beginning, then you wouldn’t have looked like you were just unfairly bashing FFVII for no reason. If this is the way, then by your own statements, every Final Fantasy before X sucked. Okay, I’m fine with that. Now, I am very tired, and crashing from a Halloween candy sugar high. I must depart.
Nobody said that everybody must think that FFVII is the best game of all. But as you said, wre’re not talking about our impresions of FFVII, but the quality of the game. I agree on that. FFVII has flaws, and nobody said it was perfect. But, as Master Nabeshin said, you are bashing the game for no reason. The graphics may not be the best and there are translation mistakes and other flaws. But it’s still a good game. Back then, it was an excelent game, but today’s standards are very high and that’s why FFVII sucks by today’s standards. Still, it’s an excellent game. Listen, why don’t we just stop arguing and start respecting other’s opinions. I think that would be the best.
I agree that there are much better games.
Wow, that didn’t take long for you to make yourself look idiotic.
Also, you say that Prak is bashing the game for no reason. I’d hate to break it for you, but you said it yourself that FFVII is not a perfect game. So, when there are flaws in a game, the window of opportunity to bash the game for those flaws is immediately opened. If there was nothing wrong with the game whatsoever, then you could say we are bashing it for no reason. But that’s not the case.
Also, Master Nabeshin, Prak asked you to tell us just one thing that we stated as fact and failed to back up. You say that you choose your battles carefully, but you won’t even put up a fight when you have no material whatsoever.
Of graphics and such? What concepts are you talking about when you mean ‘such’? And yes, there are plenty of games with better graphics than FFVII, and also a better storyline.
As you said, there are games with better stroylines than FFVII, I never said that FFVII has the best storyline of all time. Well, for me, FFVII does have the best storyline, but that’s my opinion about FFVII, and nobody has to share that opinion with me.
But I just don’t see how someone can say something like…
FFVII <B>doesn’t</B> have the best storyline, but IMO it does.
No, I mean you are basically saying that you think FFVII doesn’t have the best this or that, but then you say that for you it’s the best. It sounds like you are contradicting yourself when that happens. If it’s the greatest something for you, then that means you think it’s the greatest anyways.
Uhhh..right. That’s called a double standard, Prak. And double standards mean nothing. Besides, technical implies the level of technological capabilities of the subject. This includes just about anything but the story, which requires NO technology. So, just about the only thing much deeper than any of that is the story, which is not flawed at all. Everything flows together seamlessly (if you didn’t get it, there’s something wrong with you. Get a brainscan), and is much more orginal than a giant monster or sorcerer/ sorceress, a conquerer trying to take over the world. There’s really no denying it. Those kind of tales have been around for hundreds of years. Just how many stories are there of a man killing a planet to become god? Not many, if any. Oh, and sorry, I’ve been gone the last few days. I found out that I had a life, and was unable to attend to trivial things, such as this website. 😛 Life taught me a few good things. Such as, everything on here is trivial, and doesn’t matter. As the saying goes "Arguing on the Internet is like being in the special olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded." Now stop pretending to be smart. You’re not very convincing. 😛
Really? How so?
Besides, technical implies the level of technological capabilities of the subject. This includes just about anything but the story, which requires NO technology.
Incorrect. Technical simply refers to those aspects that can be judged on a static scale. Stories also have technical merits, as any decent writer will tell you.
So, just about the only thing much deeper than any of that is the story, which is not flawed at all. Everything flows together seamlessly (if you didn’t get it, there’s something wrong with you. Get a brainscan), and is much more orginal than a giant monster or sorcerer/ sorceress, a conquerer trying to take over the world.
Everything flows together seamlessly, does it? That’s a laugh. The ambiguities in the storyline are myriad, as instanced by Cloud’s origins (Just where in the world did he come from? When did it happen? Why is he running loose if he was some kind of clone?) and his mental state (was he lying to everyone about being in SOLDIER or had he gone so delusional that he forgot the truth? The game never answers that and either possibility is awful from a continuity perspective because it doesn’t fit the established character profile.).
There’s really no denying it. Those kind of tales have been around for hundreds of years. Just how many stories are there of a man killing a planet to become god? Not many, if any.
What’s your point. I never said I had problems with the basic premise. In fact, I’ve said on more than one occasion that it had a good concept, but was ruined by piss-poor execution.
Oh, and sorry, I’ve been gone the last few days. I found out that I had a life, and was unable to attend to trivial things, such as this website. 😛 Life taught me a few good things. Such as, everything on here is trivial, and doesn’t matter.
That’s nice. I wonder if there’s a point though.
Now stop pretending to be smart. You’re not very convincing. 😛
Making things personal was a mistake. I’ve obviously gotten to you if you’re resorting to insults. Can it be that you’re having a hard time in countering me? Oh yes, I forgot. YOU’RE NOT! You haven’t countered anything I’ve said. You’ve just carried right on with your blathering and never bothered with counterpoints.
And before you try to insult my intelligence, try jamming a spark plug in your ear. Maybe it’ll make your neurons fire fast enough to wage a decent argument. As it stands, you’ve made the foolish mistake of coming to a battle of wits completely unarmed.
You want to know why everything seems to flow seamlessly together? That’s because the game hands you out the different dishes ON A SILVER PLATTER WITH A FULL DESCRIPTION OF THE FOOD! That’s not a story flowing seamlessly together; that’s just a story with no real complex issues, and everything about the storyline is told to you automatically.
Just how many stories are there of a man killing a planet to become god? Not many, if any.
How many stories are there of a plumber folding into many different shapes to collect Crystal Stars and open The Thousand-Year Door? Only one.
I mean please, you are saying that as if just because there <B>may</B> not be many stories similar to this, that it automatically is justified as a good one.
I found out that I had a life, and was unable to attend to trivial things, such as this website. 😛 Life taught me a few good things. Such as, everything on here is trivial, and doesn’t matter. As the saying goes "Arguing on the Internet is like being in the special olympics. Even if you win, you’re still retarded." Now stop pretending to be smart. You’re not very convincing. 😛
Shit, I was so desperately hoping that while you were away in your life, that you would be able to discover some reliable information about the game, and then come back and debate with us in a cogent manner.
I never implied that I was smart, either. I’m participating in internet arguing, I’m equally retarded. I was also referring to Smokey, anyway. Oh, and Smokey, I was also sorta kinda hoping the same thing of you while I was away. Oh, and there is kinda sort the tiny complex issue of Cloud and Tifa’s past. Yeah, that wasn’t exactly handed over on a silver platter. Besides, having a story that you have to think about implies that the writers were just to lazy to cover up plotholes. Only philosophy is excluded from this, and Final Fantasy is not philosophical. Of course, now you’re going to try and cover up this point by contradicting yourself and claiming that nothing fit together in the story, when you just said that it fit together all to easily.
Prak, a double standard is similar to hypocracy. You claim to hold one standard, until that standard becomes inconvinient. There isn’t a single double standard that is justifiable. You double standard is that you claim that FFVII’s technical aspects suck, while claiming that previous games have superior technical aspects while they clearly don’t. You say that a game should be judged basically by the way it squeezes juice out of the system it’s on. However, the fact that the technical aspects of ever Final Fantasy game before FFVII are inferior, and every (excluding GBA games) FF game after it is superior cannot be denied. I hold the standard (to ALL games) of the most recent techical cababilites of a game. This doesn’t mean that a game is any less enjoyable, it merely means that the graphics and sounds are better on the next in the series. Now, since that is your argument, then the further back in the series you go, the suckier the technical aspects get. Now, like I’ve said, a storyline is NOT a technical aspect. Masterpiece stories have been written centuries, millenia ago. No technology is involved in a story.
If you want to prove that I have a double standard, then you’ll have to provide evidence of me being inconsistent. I may hold different standards than you, but they are rock-solid. As long as I stay consistent, you cannot possibly call me a hypicrite and expect it to stick. The only way you can argue against that is to show where I’ve said that an older game is of lesser quality just because it isn’t new. That would be a real double standard.
http://www.kuponut.com/index.html?ilogo.html&ilinks.html&http://www.kuponut.com/games/ff7/game_timeline.html
Sorry, but I’m not going to do that. I have said all along that the storyline is handed to you up-close and personal. You basically don’t have to do anything extra to advance the storyline, and you basically don’t have to go hunting around from this town to the next to find out a valuable piece of information to help you in the game. And no, just because a story makes you think about it, doesn’t mean that the writers were too lazy to cover up plotholes. The storyline of FFVII is handed to you, that’s it. No hunting around, no searching a building or talking to villagers. You go to destination A, and then you are told to go to destination B. It goes on and on like that throughout the game. There is nothing complex about it, and the writers did do a pretty pathetic job of piecing together the whole ‘Cloud & Tifa past’ thing, Zach’s past, Aeris & Zach, etc. It’s like they dangled the bait for you, and then quickly pulled the line away so that 7 years later, you still can’t get the bait. You see the bait, but you never get it.
Bah, nice try, Smokey. Sorry, but as a writer, and among many people who write (some of them professionally), flowing stories, whether you "have to hunt" (what the hell does that have to do with any of it anyway? Everyone knows that having to search for the next phase of the game is merely a cheap way to extend a cheap story. A perfect example of this is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Those huge oceans were uneccisary.), or not is better than one that has gaps and periods of time in the story where NOTHING happens. You’ll notice that this does not happen in FFVII. The story constantly moves, and the only time it doesn’t is when there are EXTRAS.
I’m sorry, but you are no way a writer. Just because you know how to type doesn’t make you a writer; A writer is someone who actually has great skills in tearing a game apart piece by piece to describe what makes it good and/or bad. Some excellent examples of writers here are mrmonkeyman and Prak, and I’m not too shabby myself.
Everyone knows that having to search for the next phase of the game is merely a cheap way to extend a cheap story.
That’s one of the most retarded statements I’ve read in a long time. So I take it that every single game that has you search around a little is only doing so, just for the sole purpose of extending the cheap storyline? I’m sorry, but you are wholly wrong. I’ll just give a quick example to prove you wrong; Chrono Trigger.
A perfect example of this is The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker. Those huge oceans were uneccisary.), or not is better than one that has gaps and periods of time in the story where NOTHING happens. You’ll notice that this does not happen in FFVII. The story constantly moves, and the only time it doesn’t is when there are EXTRAS.
Why the fuck do you keep trying to back out of this? Now you bring WW into account? That’s a totally different game, and really has nothing to do with the original point that Prak and I are trying to get you to do. Time after time after time, you have failed to prove anything and back it up. Yes, it is true. And whatever ‘evidence’ you have stated has been terrible, at best. If you really want to make yourself look like more of a moron, then just demand that I back up this statement, and I will personally go through all the posts you have made in this thread, and count all the times someone has asked or told you to back something up, and then you fail to do so.
Oh, just Legend of Legaia, Legend of Dragoon, Star Ocean: The Second Story, Legacy of Kain – all four of the games starting with Blood Omen, hrm… the list goes on for a good while.
1. The focus of the game shifts, firstly you’re just terrorists blowing up reactors saying whopee the planets saved, then suddenly a face from the past re-emerges and just blowing up reactors won’t make a damn bit of difference.
2. how many games have a bad guy cutting down a beloved character right in the heros face!, i cant name many games that could be so beautifully brutal.
3. the characters are so different from each other ( in FF8 its oh look we’re all Seed members lets go get the bad guy ( except Rinoa who isnt a seed)) . Each character in 7 had a different but totaly acceptable reason for fighting.
4. Even the badguys were plausable (mostly) The Turks fitted in with Shinra, Jenova was around over 2000 years ago ( so why not make an appearence), Weapon was designed to restore lifesteam energy to the planet ( by eliminating as much life as possibe). I cant really comment on things like bottomswell or Palmer, even Rapps and Apps need a stretch of imagination
5. erm cant think of a fith point but i will
1. The focus of the game shifts, firstly you’re just terrorists blowing up reactors saying whopee the planets saved, then suddenly a face from the past re-emerges and just blowing up reactors won’t make a damn bit of difference.
2. how many games have a bad guy cutting down a beloved character right in the heros face!, i cant name many games that could be so beautifully brutal.
3. the characters are so different from each other ( in FF8 its oh look we’re all Seed members lets go get the bad guy ( except Rinoa who isnt a seed)) . Each character in 7 had a different but totaly acceptable reason for fighting.
4. Even the badguys were plausable (mostly) The Turks fitted in with Shinra, Jenova was around over 2000 years ago ( so why not make an appearence), Weapon was designed to restore lifesteam energy to the planet ( by eliminating as much life as possibe). I cant really comment on things like bottomswell or Palmer, even Rapps and Apps need a stretch of imagination
5. erm cant think of a fith point but i will
Yes, the characters really come to life in FFVII, and they are mostly victims of Shinra’s destruction (experiments, mako reactors, destroying towns and lives of other people).
I usually don’t like the bad guys, but I kinda like Rufus, and even Sephiroth. Even some members of the Turks. They are all bad guys, but I really like them. I like Reno, too.
Yes, this is true. I thin that the storyline was brilliant. However, the storyline has a few holes, but hey, nothing is perfect.
In FF7 Clouds love dies its just a better story line and FF7 was the first FF I played sc I have to be loyal.
Yeah, but those ALL came after FFVII, f00. Suck on that.
Wow, I’ve been gone a while. My life seems to be happening all week now. No time for fun ;_;. Well, glad to see this thread is going quite nicely.
me too!
Incorrect. Blood Omen was released on the same day FFVII came out in Japan.
By the way, I was in error when I said Blood Omen was released at the same time as FFVII. Bad source. It was actually released several months before FFVII, in mid 1996.
as for Blood Omen before FF7, yes true, but FF7 had been delayed several times due to various problems, or so i’ve heard… I’ll try and confirm this though
I would have much preferred it if the ending had left without a shadow of a doubt that Holy had obliterated all but the most basic of life forms and that everything was starting over.
Well, Odin, you’re seven years too late to complain about it. Besides, there is an ending video that shows that Holy allowed life to continue. Now, did it obliterate humans? We don’t know. Not until Advent Children happened, anyway.
Blasphemy! I demand blood atonement!
Prak you are half right, the relevance of finding out if FF7 would have been launched before Blood Omen would not prove if 7 was a good game, however it would show that the story had been developed for 7 before Bl.Om.
AS or opinions of FF7, they can go either way, some could like, some could hate, baseless hating is (imo) just as counter productive as baseless liking. I have stated, earlier, my reasons for liking FF7 and i hope i have backed them up with suitable evidence, if not i will ladly return to this thread to defend my reasoning
No, you are crazy. Oh yes I have been there and we have good reasons for why FFVII sucks. Sorry for the confusion if there was any.
Square Enix is milking the cash cow you call Final Fantasy VII for all it’s worth…If Yuffie was in a game they made then I might buy it cause Yuffie’s the only character I have respect for anymore…
Well first of all, it’s too easy, it’s boring after awhile…materia gets stale after awhile and the storyline is sort of retarded…the characters get boring and stale…(except Yuffie). Yeah, those reasons…
and chorns can i ask why u only have respect for yuffie??….vincents cool to
Yuffie is a ninja, nuff said.
pretty much. thats like saying Britney spears is talented and one of the best singers ever because she sold a lot of albums. I did enjoy VII for the most part, but most of the arguments defending it sound like the arguments of a 12 yr old
i wasn’t going against him. I was saying the people defending the game were the ones that tend to sound like idiots most of the time
I came to this site and saw this thread and said to myself, they are right. Now I hate and dispise the game for all the right reasons…
I’ve read this thread, and I understand what has been said, but I still like and enjoy the game, nothing anyone could say will make me change that…
I guess you didn’t consider Back Blade, Mirager, MoogleRush, Red Card, Riot Blade, RoyalShock, SabreSoul, ShadowFang, Spin Edge, Star Prism, TigerBreak, or X-Meteo limits…I did, they were all attacks that were only executed when the character was in a near fatal state for HP…That’s what a limit is right?
Yeah, but, so what? I still consider those attacks limits…
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
but it didnt it only work at certain times and not all the time
Quote
Originally Posted by Chorns
Yeah, but, so what? I still consider those attacks limits…
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
but it didnt it only work at certain times and not all the time
Quote
Originally Posted by Chorns
Yeah, but, so what? I still consider those attacks limits…
I must not have read your post correctly or something…
This game i thinked kicked ass. The characters were well developed and had emotions and were like people you might meet out in everyday life and we all came to know them as if they were real people we had known forever.
I covered this before. The characters were all one dimensional, covering every archetype in the book, but not expanding on any of them.
The summons were awesome
How so? They looked cool, you mean? That hardly makes it a great game, just a flashy one. They were no better than any summons before or since.
the battle system was sweet
The battle system was clumsy and unrefined.
and there was SOO much to do that if you got bored doing one thing you could go do something else equally as fun and challanging.
So what? Practically all RPGs have side quests.
The music was also perfect for every part it got you pumpedup and ready for battles and got youn emotional during ceratin scenes.
Whatever. The music was okay, but I don’t feel it was exceptional.
And the storyline and plot was great and drew you in to it and made you feel close to everyone so that when things happened to them you felt just like they did (ex: Aeris’ Death).
The storyline fell apart after the first disc. I thought it was pretty good until then. After that, there were very few notable occurences and far too much remained unresolved. In other cases, the story seemed to contradict itself. And don’t say it’s good because it lets you make up your own mind or some crap like that. That’s bad writing. A decently written story would put all the information in there, even if some of it was hidden.
And those who say the story line and characters suck i think its just becuase they cant expand their minds enought to understand it or are just complaining to have something to complain about in the game b/c they’re in denial about how a game could be so good.
Or maybe it’s because it’s so far beneath our minds. A child could easily understand everything that happened in that game, as well as the thoughts and motivations of the characters.
And another thing if the game is so bad then why are there so many moer things that have come out of this Final Fantasy than any other and why did people consider it the best game ever made when it came out and why do people who have never played Final Fantasy VII or any other at least know something about this one and what Final Fantasy is becuase of 7???????
Its popularity partly comes from marketing. It was the most heavily marketed game ever at the time. It was extremely easy, so people were able to play through it quickly. And then there’s the fact that many people let their own opinions be predetermined by the opinions of their peers. When a large number of kids decided Final Fantasy VII was cool, others naturally followed suit in singing its praises.
By the way, anyone who wants is welcome to take up the argument. I can do this forever. And chorns and I are just the first wave, so don’t expect it to be easy.
while sum of the stuff prak says is true i still really enjoyed the game, even if the materia system wasnt the best or the battle system was clumy, the only thing i really TRULY liked about it was the story and music…..and also sephiroth
he looks cool
I said that Final Fantasy VII was the Nirvana of the series, and I think people in that forum are mad at me now.
I think that was a bit of an overstatement to
but i also think Nirvana suck ass and have HORRIBLE music….but thats just me…..i guess im to metal to really enjoy Nirvana anymore….but yah FF7 wasnt the nirvana of the FF series i would say it was definately a groundbreaker because its the first "fully 3D" FF but there were better
I have a feeling it was meant in another context.
and at the moment im into the hardcore scene right now…..Converge, Terror, Agony Scene, etc….
but usually im either listening to Cradle of Filth, Children of Bodom, Stratovarius, Blind Guardian, or sum other stuff….depends really…..if u ask me that same question in 2 weeks time ill probley give u a different answer
and there getting WAY to trendy lately around my school….i see little poser kids whereing "Nevermind" t-shirts and shit like that
I’ll listen to oldies too
i enjoy listening to orchestra’s
but my true nature is Metal ♥
im metal to the core
but still…Classical has a place in my heart
♥Classical♥
this game is fun
♥FF7♥
By the way I FAIL ENGLISH SO SHUT THE F*%# UP
By the way I FAIL ENGLISH SO SHUT THE F*%# UP
FFVI had like 30 summons u goon
Yeah…one of the best RPGs ever…
as Prak said, a child would be able to understand the simple concept of the story.
so that makes its a good game?
And the characters did go through changes Prak, Cloud for example starts off just helping Barret and then he meets Aeris and falls inlove with her. His motive then becomes to protect her and then becomes getting his revenge for her death
At the beginning, you don’t know anything at all about the character, so there’s no basis for saying he changes after meeting Aerith, especially since that happened so early in the game. And motives are not the same thing as personality development, so they represent no significant change in the character.
and then turns to him finding the truth about his past
That was forced on the player in a completely awkward way. It had nothing to do with the character searching for his own past. Instead, they dragged it out in a pure exposition piece that was way too long, too easy, and too boring.
and finally becomes to save the world and to avenge Aeris.
Woo-frickin-hoo. That’s par for the course, buddy. Everyone runs off in the end to save the world and avenge all the wrongs done by the villain.
He evolves from this ex. soilder who only does things for cash to a caring person who will do anything for the planet and humanity.
Did he just do things for cash? How would you know? You know next to nothing of the character’s motives before that point.
If thats not character change and development then i dont know what is.
Then you don’t know. It isn’t character development. It’s merely basic (very basic) plot advancement.
By the way I FAIL ENGLISH SO SHUT THE F*%# UP
Am I supposed to tip-toe around your deficiencies because you can’t be bothered to open a book and learn the language? I think not.
i think you and prak diss and bitch about ff7 just to have something to diss and bitch about and so you can stick out and be different from everyone else and to draw attention to yourself.
Try pulling your head out of your ass and you might notice that a lot of people around here despise FFVII. Personally, I don’t hate it. I think it’s mediocre at best, but not worthy of hatred. I’ll even be the first to admit that it had the potential to be really good. What I can’t stand are the rabid obsessive fans who think that saying anything negative about FFVII is akin to pissing on their bible.
And the story is great just becuase its easy to understand doesnt mean it sucks
The story is basic, but even worse, it’s incomplete. Everybody knows it. Only fools would deny it. Even FFVII’s most die-hard fans admit it. And being easy to understand isn’t necessarily a fault, but it also isn’t something to be lauded. A simplistic plot is a hallmark of sub-par story crafting.
and the characters motives actually change unlike that of others such as FFX.
Oh yeah sure… Like Tidus’ motives changing from defeating Sin and going home to keeping Yuna safe never happened. Like Wakka never renounced Yevon and started accepting the Al Bhed. And of course Lulu must not have conquered her inner demons from her past pilgrimages, by your reasoning.
Every character in FFX had their own distinct story that progressed throughout the game. Their personalities changed to reflect their experiences as well. That’s something FFVII lacked. Those characters’ personalities never changed, no matter what happened. Even if their motives changed, that’s just a plot device to keep the story going forward. And the fact is that they all had the same reason for going on because the writers were too lazy to give them distinctions.
well not just that. but i was only asking.
Firstly i think the materia system is the best system there was. Junction just peed me off.
All the little things like your airship, Weopon being awoken and you have the choice to try to take the suckers down. Fort condor was great fun as im a major fan of RTS.
Lastly all the hidden things like knights of the round table etc.
Secondly in X tidus is just lets get to zanarkand and beat sin but wait yunas gonna die i have to stop that and thats all he goes through which is there the entire time. And wakka barly sticks his foot out of the door when it comes to dispising yevon.
Thirdly theres a lot of people who hate you and agree with me and a lot og people just agree with you and dont speak their minds is cuz ur a stubborn jackass who wont except anyone elses opinion but ur own and if 7 sucks so much then why do people vote it as the best most of the time and yes some are becuase they just jumped on the bandwagon but a lot are becuase it is a great game and people love it, you just have BAD TASTE!!!!!!!!!
Finally the only part of the story thats incomplete is the end cuz its a cliffhanger but whats so bad about that some of the greatest movies and books end in cliffhangers and if it sucked so much people wouldnt care to see what happened nest they would just say i dont give a flying fuck but they want to know what happened next in the story becuase its sooo good they want to know do cloud and tifa get together, doe aeris come back, what happened to midgar, was sephiroth really destroyed.
On a closing note FF7 was a great game its story and plot are great becuase they have four elements that make any game, movie, or book great: Drama, Comedy, Love, and Action. And finally Prak if youve got nothing good to say then shut your fucking mouth and dont say anything cuz this thread and forum is for those who praise the game and love it and want to talk about it and swap info and strategies not for people to insult and make fun those who love it people should be happy about the game and for loving it not be ashamed for it and be attacked cuz of it just cuz you dont like it and want to change billions of peoples opinion to match your own.
no, i mean Prick
You know nothing about him in the beginning. Cloud is the angsty keep his feelings to himself character. The whole "just for the money thing" could just as easily be a facade to cover him. you dont know, because you know nothing about him in the beginning, and theres nothing to really point either way.
Secondly in X tidus is just lets get to zanarkand and beat sin but wait yunas gonna die i have to stop that and thats all he goes through which is there the entire time. And wakka barly sticks his foot out of the door when it comes to dispising yevon.
Tidus just kinda started off as a confused kid trying to get home. He has more of a gradual change in his motive as the game continues, once he learns of what sin is and about Yuna dying and all. Wakka, well. If you grew up a hardcore christian and believe all the teachings of the church and everything very strongly, and then one day, you started to learn that everything about the religion you believed so strongly in is nothing but a lie, you’d be a little hesitant to renounce it as well. becuase lets face it, if you live ur whole life believing that strongly in something, regardless of the facts you still want to hold on to that and believe that its still true and not just all some big lie.
Thirdly theres a lot of people who hate you and agree with me and a lot og people just agree with you and dont speak their minds is cuz ur a stubborn jackass who wont except anyone elses opinion but ur own and if 7 sucks so much then why do people vote it as the best most of the time and yes some are becuase they just jumped on the bandwagon but a lot are becuase it is a great game and people love it, you just have BAD TASTE!!!!!!!!!
of course people hate him, this is the FFVII forum, and almost every VII fan here seems to like to believe it is a perfect game and the greatest game ever made, so prak must be the devil for he speaks in a negative way over our god (FFVII). I enjoyed playing VII. But dam, i take it for what it is, a decent rpg,the greatest ever? no. but with an easy enough to understand battle system and storyline and thats that, I dont sit here and try to put the game on some rediculous pedastool. and the reason he wont except your opinion? well from what i’ve seen it goes something like this:
fanboy-OMG FFVII RULZ!!!! OMG!!!
prak-no its not that great, why do you think it is
fanoby-BECAUSE OMG ITS THE GREATEST EVER!!I IF U DOPNT THING SO YOU SUCK
prack-how about some actual reasons to back up the game being so great. I don’t think its that great of a game because…(Prak then goes into detail and gives examples in the game of why its not that great)
fanboy-OMG THATS NOT WHY IT SUCKS U SUCK BECAUSE U DONT LIEK IT NAD U DONT GET IT (still not backing up his argument with any details at all)
But while I’m on here, I guess that I should <B>link to my oh so great post</B> I made a while ago about the game!
Lazy doesn’t win debates, kid. And if you’re so convinced that Cloud was only in it for the money, say why. Give examples. Prove it.
Secondly in X tidus is just lets get to zanarkand and beat sin but wait yunas gonna die i have to stop that and thats all he goes through which is there the entire time. And wakka barly sticks his foot out of the door when it comes to dispising yevon.
You say that like you have some kind of point behind it. Sadly, you forgot to include it. It’s a mindless rant with zero value because you didn’t tie it into the context of the discussion.
Thirdly theres a lot of people who hate you
So? I’m not trying to win a popularity contest.
and agree with me and a lot og people just agree with you and dont speak their minds is cuz ur a stubborn jackass who wont except anyone elses opinion but ur own
I have been known to revise my opinions if someone puts forth a superior argument and makes me reevaluate them. For example, Tokiko managed to completely change my stance on Necron in FFIX.
and if 7 sucks so much then why do people vote it as the best most of the time
Covered that already. Not doing it again. Try making new points instead of recycling the same old garbage in hopes that I’ll let it slide on of these days.
and yes some are becuase they just jumped on the bandwagon but a lot are becuase it is a great game and people love it, you just have BAD TASTE!!!!!!!!!
Well, hooray for your obviously superior debate skills. How can I possibly compete with a statement like that? :rolleyes:
Finally the only part of the story thats incomplete is the end cuz its a cliffhanger
It wasn’t meant to be a cliffhanger. There were no sequels planned until recently. Thus, you are unconditionally and irrefutably wrong.
but whats so bad about that some of the greatest movies and books end in cliffhangers and if it sucked so much people wouldnt care to see what happened nest they would just say i dont give a flying fuck
Usually, things that end with cliffhangers actually have sequels planned. See the point above.
but they want to know what happened next in the story becuase its sooo good they want to know do cloud and tifa get together, doe aeris come back, what happened to midgar, was sephiroth really destroyed.
All of which should have been covered in what was meant to be a stand-alone game. Again, bad writing.
On a closing note FF7 was a great game its story and plot are great becuase they have four elements that make any game, movie, or book great: Drama, Comedy, Love, and Action.
That was a stupid statement. Period. It doesn’t even deserve a response because anyone reading it can tell that it’s either a desperate attempt by a rabid fanboy to save face for his favorite game or that you have absolutely no concept of what makes a decent story.
And finally Prak if youve got nothing good to say then shut your fucking mouth and dont say anything
No. I always speak my mind and no arrogant twerp is going to convince me to hold my piece.
cuz this thread and forum is for those who praise the game and love it and want to talk about it
Wrong. This thread was made as a blatant counterpart to the original "FFVII – Why it ISN’T a Good Game" thread. Incidentally, that other thread is a debate thread, so why should this similarly themed thread not be the same thing? The forum itself is for discussion of the game, not just for fanboy lunatics to geek out over it.
people should be happy about the game and for loving it not be ashamed for it and be attacked cuz of it just cuz you dont like it and want to change billions of peoples opinion to match your own.
You missed my point. I don’t give a shit whether you like it or not. I’m just making the case for it being a mediocre game at best. You’re free to like it and geek out over it as much as you want, but I will call you on it when you claim that it’s the best thing ever. Because it isn’t. We’ve proven it time and time again over the course of these threads.
fvii was the single gr8test game ever to hit the videogaming world, in the future it will be studied like Mark Twain and Shakespeare, anybody who disagrees is wrong, like that dude, what was his name, Prick, yeah, his arguments wasnt even that good, he could at least come up wit some better points instead of tryin to contradict the obvious
How dare you compare a sub-par story with the works of Mark Twain? I don’t give a crap about Shakespeare, but insulting Twain like that is unforgivable.
And by the way, I love it when people call me Prik/Prick because it means I’ve gotten to them. They can’t argue with me in a civilized way, so they must resort to name-calling. It shows that your point of view has been soundly defeated and all you have to fall back on is personal derision.
I am a fan of FF7, it was the game that broke the FF "ice" for me, and at the time was one of the hrdest games I had ever played…
However, this thread is not about why I like the game, it is about it being a good game or not, and this fact also seems to have been overlooked.
Everyone goes on about how FF7 rules or it’s the best, but without constructive reasoning this is just complete crap! and it gives the fans a bad name…
If you Read what Prak wrote you would understand that he accepts that there are fans of the game, but that he despises people who cannot constructively back up their comments with effective and conclusive reasoning.
I started with FF1, so they all seemed just as easy to me. None of them require you to spend time dedicated to levelling up and nothing else except FF1, and I was already in the habit when I played all the others. So, to me, FF6 was no harder than FF7. Perhaps that’s why I don’t see why all of you are calling FF7 too easy. I don’t play RPGs for a challenge, I play them because it’s fun to play through a game once and eradicate the enemies with ease, and then go back through and level up even more ridiculously, causing me to do obscene amounts of damage early in the game. I don’t mean to brag or anything; I’m just telling you how I play RPGs. Also, I don’t think the story was as linear as many of you are saying it is. Yes, you know that the Shinra and Sephiroth are evil for pretty much the entire game, but you could easily tell Kefka was the main villain of FF6 from the first time you saw him. Plus, there are many conflicts involving the fight against Shinra, such as the number of innocent people who were killed in the process. The one thing I will admit is wrong with FF7’s story is the ending. Yeah, if you want a reason to hate FF7, this is it. I mean, what the hell has just happened? Is the planet able to save itself despite holy’s failure? Was your whole adventure a complete waste of time? Plus, it leaves way too many loose ends. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the story until the ending.
For a final note, I’m not going to name any names, but please stop insulting people. This IS more of a problem from the die-hard FF7 fans, and it really makes it seem like you’re all a bunch of FF7 zombies who have been sent out to eat everyone who opposes it. I know, not all FF7 fans are doing this, but there are those who are, and if you are, please stop.
Dude, I’m simply stating why I didn’t like it and you are attacking the entire the way…
well then since no one should argue that the game sucks in this thread, maybe everyone that thinks it IS a good game should stop saying it is a good game in the thread called: why it ISN’T a good game
Like you said Prak, this IS a debate thread. Let’s all try and keep it as one. Don’t just state what you like/didn’t like about it, state what makes it that way. And if one more person mentions how much money it made, then the other side automatically wins.
No, you guys don’t win, because I’m going to say it again.
This game is the most marketed in video gaming history, period. And it has made a ton of money as well, especially with the several spin-offs that are coming out/released already.
This game is the most marketed in video gaming history, period. And it has made a ton of money as well, especially with the several spin-offs that are coming out/released already.
Ok, let me rephrase that. Next time someone uses popularity or lucrativity to prove whether it is good or not, the other side automatically wins. And if anything, YOU guys would win, because people keep repeating that "FF7 made the most money so it had to be good!"
well, this "propaganda macine" was out of use YEARS ago, they dont advertise it anymore and somehow, the vast majority of the public still love FFVII. if the seventh final fantasy was really a bad game then it would have imploded once the "Propaganda macine" ceased to function, but it is still the most popular game of the whole FF series.
When someone actually made an effort to debate saying why it is a good game, they were almost imediately shattered by stronger arguments. Then you people resorted to name calling.
1) A huge leap from classic final fantasies, graphics- wise, while still retaining an acceptable storyline. unlike some other game developers, they didn’t sacrifice the story just to make it all flashy, they focused on all aspects.
2) The characters: all of them have their story explained at some point in the game, in- depth
3) The protagonist, Cloud, he is mysterious and we dont kno too much about him in the beginning, that is true, but that is why they call it character DEVELOPMENT, you learn about his character throughout the game
4) The Antagonist, NOT ONLY SEPHIROTH!!! The antagonist of the story is ALL OF SHINRA, after all, they created Sephiroth, theyre destroying the planet
5) Action, the game is packed with it, the very first thing that you do in the game is blow up a reactor, talk about getting things moving from the begining…
6) THe materia system is simple enough for the beginner (which is why it is such a good game to start out with) yet does have it’s complexities
That’s it for now although theres much more
Does everyone just ignore my posts in the other thread about this game being good or not? Not once did I resort to name calling, and my arguments were not shattered, they still stand.
To your point about nobody that played the earlier FF games thinking 7 was the best. I had played both FF4 and FF6 before FF7 came out, I still think 7 was better than 4 and just as good as 6, in fact the only FF I consider better than 7 came out after 7. So that’s kinda wrong.
oh, yeah….
If i said nobody, sorry. I really meant almost anybody. If that’s still wrong, go ahead and shoot me. One person does not make the rule. You liked it better. I know tons of people that didn’t. I was a big fan of VII but my love for the game decreased when I played some of the older ones.
Durendal, the term "shattered" would not apply to you. You were easily the best our opposition has had to offer. Your points were always well-presented and we respected your tact and eloquence. However, it must also be conceded that you were forced to retract or amend several of your earlier positions (I count your willingness to do so as a high merit, incidentally.) over the course of the debate. Also, your points may not have been shattered, but they were countered. Thus, if we were keeping score, you would have lost, albeit not by much.
The reason I left that thread, and while I can’t speak for RM I suspect it’s the same, is the extreme stupidity I saw in there. So that’s one thing we can agree on.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! It looks like we lose. It was a good effort, though.
Well, some of us gave good effort…
If that were true there would not be two threads with over 600 replies collectively debating the issue.
I’m pretty sure RM already has…and I’m also quite sure that he disagrees with most if not all of the arguments for the game.
Your so-called facts are nothing but conjecture and opinion. There’s nothing wrong with presenting opinion in a debate, but you have to have a solid defense for it, which you don’t. Conjecture has no place in debates, however.
and second of all you guys "shatter" our arguments just by saying "no thats not true"
I guess you don’t even bother to read our counter-arguments.
you dont even listen you just yell at us about how you think its bad
See above.
and you know what ive played all but nine and beaten 7 8 and 10 and im right now working on beating 5 and 1 and yes they’re good but i dont get the same excitment and fun i got from 7 and 8 which are tied as my favorites.
Woo-frickin-hoo. That’s nothing but personal opinion, which is worthless in this context. All you’re saying is that you love it, so it must be good. That doesn’t fly.
The characters were great b/c they had emotion and were like people you would meet in every day life
Uhhh… no. How is a guy with unclear origins and a massive identity crisis like someone you’d meet in real life. You only meet people like that in sanitariums. You only see people like Barrett on bad tv shows. Yuffie is just like an anime character. Cid is a comic book/hollywood stereotype that would be a plumber in real life. And there’s no one alive with as little personality as Tifa.
and example is when aeris dies cloud falls apart and slowly breaks down mentally
In totally unbelievable fashion, I might add. The dialogue on that scene was so ridiculously written, I practically gagged when I read it.
in the previous ones if someone died they’d just be like "oh well he died trying to save the planet… ok im happy now".
Such as? Name an instance of that.
the story was awesome it just had a cliffhanger ending and whats so bad about that
What’s bad about that is that it was intended to be a stand-alone story. As such, it wasn’t a true cliffhanger, just an incomplete ending. And we’ve already argued against the story’s quality many times, so I’m not going to go back to that. You can look up the old arguments on your own.
the stroy goes to something completly unpredictable think it goes from being just to stop shinra and save the planet from pollution and protect aeris but becomes stopping sephiroth form going to the ultimate extreme to save the planet, avenging those who have perished on the journey and ending grudge that has gone on for too long
Are you kidding? It spells out for you in the very beginning that Shinra and Sephiroth are the bad guys. And the villain ALWAYS has a megalomaniacal plan, so that was no shock, especially when it was remarkably similar to Kefka’s plans in FFVI. And what game doesn’t let you settle all the scores that’s accumulated over its course?
and it was just fun and isnt that what video games are for?
Pure opinion there. No value in a debate.
And those who say materia is too easy to understand it confuses me more than the junction system.
So? It’s not like either one was hard to understand.
It was and still is a great game
How nice. I disagree.
its graphics were great for the time
Only compared to games on lesser systems. The PlayStation allowed for better graphics, which is why they were regarded as good.
and still are pretty good when you compare them to other PSX games for example compare the graphics in earlier games such as resident evil it had good graphics but they were really block and looked like pieces of paper put together in ff7 they actually look pretty rounded of and smooth .
And how about we compare it to Blood Omen, another RPG that was released on the same day as FFVII, but had far superior graphics. Things like that are always subjective, but it is a conclusive fact that FFVII was not king of the hill in terms of its graphics at the time of its release.
And you know some people did just jump on the bandwagon but the majority just love it becuase it is a good game
I’d like to see you prove that.
and i know that i dont love it just for the advertising becuase I NEVER SAW ANY COMMERCIALS FOR IT !!! I just saw it in the store one day and said wow this looks neat and i bought it and fell in love with it.
That’s nice, but hardly relevant as it was a personal experience and is not in any way indicative of most peoples’ experiences.
And i know pleanty of people who agree its good not just for its advertising and those who say its just good for the advertising
Which means nothing if their impression of the game had already been formed by the ads they saw.
your just saying that for a reason to smash down those who come up with good opinions that you just dont want to except.
The word you were looking for is accept. And if you call the tripe we’ve been dealing with lately good opinions, then you’re not worthy of the effort it takes to type our replies.
think about it this way is star wars considered a great movie just becuase it had good advertising NO!!
That’s another issue entirely because I don’t think Star Wars was a particularly great film.
Is the lord of the rings considered a great book and movie series becuase fo advertisng NO!!!!
But it’s not like they got heavily advertised. Have you ever, in your entire life, seen an actual ad for the books? I haven’t. And the movies had very little advertising compared to a lot of other movies.
And is Final Fantasy VII considered one of the greatest games of all time becuase of advertising NO!!!!
You realize, don’t you, that there are a great many people who would not, in a million years, count FFVII as one of the greatest games ever? And it stands that its popularity was largely due to the excessive amount of advertising it got.
its good becuase its good with a wonderful story of love, freindship and tying loose ends.
Don’t make me laugh. Love? It wasn’t even a major theme in the game. Friendship? Most of the characters didn’t even seem to care about each other. That just happened to have a common goal. Tying loose ends? Not remotely. It only hinted at the backstories of several characters, but never gave any real payoff. And the ending was a complete cop-out.
and some may have bought it for the advertising but the reason they kept it and continue to play it and love it is becuase IT IS A GREAT GAME END OF DISCUSSION!!!!!!
What a stupid thing to say. I’m replying, so apparently it wasn’t the end of the discussion. It was just the end of your ridiculously pointless rant where you blathered about how you liked things, but never made a solid case for it actually being good. In the end, the only thing you really said was "It’s good because it’s popular."
trekkis side-3
prak’s side-11
And prak you broke up what i said so it doesnt make much sense i said "I know plenty of people who bought the game not just for its advertising, and those who think its just good for the advertising are just saying tthat to smash down others opinions…"
And Prak you do realize that there is and equal or even bigger number of people who DO count final fantasy VII as one of the best games ever.
And you say a lot of my things are opinions well a lot of your things are opinions too such as your opinion is that it is good just for the advertising while mine and others are its good becuase of something else. Another example of this is i say its fun and you say its not. Chorns goes on about how 6 is better than 7 and thats an opinion before you start saying our facts dont count becuase they’re opinions look through some of your facts and see how many are opinions.
And you say we repeat ourselves well for the past 2 or 3 pages youve been saying its the advertising its the advertising.
And finally Prak im getting sick and tired of this arguing ill accept your opinions if you’ll accept mine. I personally think its one of the bes games ever and if you’ll accept that some peoples opinions are different and we just liked the game i will accept that some people dont like the game. just quit trying to attack our opinions and make others hate the game and we will stop trying to make others love it after all this thread is for those who love it and want to talk about why they love it while the other is for those who dont like and want to talk about why they dont like it.
Sephiroth
Wow i cant believe i remebered that much last time i heard that i was like 5
And prak you broke up what i said so it doesnt make much sense i said "I know plenty of people who bought the game not just for its advertising, and those who think its just good for the advertising are just saying tthat to smash down others opinions…"
And Prak you do realize that there is and equal or even bigger number of people who DO count final fantasy VII as one of the best games ever.
And you say a lot of my things are opinions well a lot of your things are opinions too such as your opinion is that it is good just for the advertising while mine and others are its good becuase of something else. Another example of this is i say its fun and you say its not. Chorns goes on about how 6 is better than 7 and thats an opinion before you start saying our facts dont count becuase they’re opinions look through some of your facts and see how many are opinions.
And you say we repeat ourselves well for the past 2 or 3 pages youve been saying its the advertising its the advertising.
And finally Prak im getting sick and tired of this arguing ill accept your opinions if you’ll accept mine. I personally think its one of the bes games ever and if you’ll accept that some peoples opinions are different and we just liked the game i will accept that some people dont like the game. just quit trying to attack our opinions and make others hate the game and we will stop trying to make others love it after all this thread is for those who love it and want to talk about why they love it while the other is for those who dont like and want to talk about why they dont like it.
Prak never said anything was wrong with your opinions, and he didn’t say he wasn’t expressing opinions. He was criticizing you for the fact that you didn’t provide facts to support them. Also, he never said it was a good game only because of advertising; he said it isn’t a good game at all. And I’m definitely not biased for his side because I thought FF7 was a good game, but I’m trying to get people like you to shut up so that my points won’t get clouded by your worthless posts.
no, most fanboys on this site tend to give poor arguments, with not much to back up their statements, and then say something like you said, "i’ll accept that u dont like the game if u accept that i like it", when theres no arguments over that, its about the game itself, not the opinions of liking it or not. its about what makes the game good or not
How can you say the characters dont care about each other!?! When Aeris dies Cloud Falls apart Tifa walks up kisses her on the forehead and runs off crying and i dont know what the other characters do cuz i either dont remeber or they werent in my party. Cid and Shera obviously care about each other or cid would have luanched the rocket and killed her and shera wouldnt have saved cids life when the O2 tank blew up on him. Cloud and Tifa care about each other cuz if they didnt Tifa would have let Cloud fall to his death in the end and wouldnt have gotten him out of the life stream.
updated the score
trekki-5
prak-11
i didn’t exactly intend for it to be 1-1, i just decided to keep score from there, and those are the only two going at it so far. and yes, Prak will probably demolish the opposition. in 2 posts to his 1 since, he’s still up 11-5. and regarldless of negative skills, i’m pretty much trying to keep giving points to only making at least a somewhat valid statement to back ur side about the game. anything that is based primarily or soley on opinion gets nothing, along with other things. Like for example, Prak did make valid arguments about star wars and lord of the rings as examples in his debate, but those were a little off topic and weren’t exactly game related, so i gave no points for that particular part of the post.
not that it may even mean anything to anyone that i’m now keeping score, but i’m pretty unbiased about the topic and try to be fair about points, so maybe if this carries on long enough, esepcially at the current rate of which prak’s side is outscoring the oposition, people will get an idea of just how bad some of the people here are at defending their game.
and just so eveyone is knows, its not just for those two, anyone that joins in on the debate will be counted. so i will officially name each side
FFVII Fanboys-5
FFVII Haters-11
(I know not everyone on each side is a fanboy or a hater, but u get the idea)
heh heh, that sounds like fun…
yah i would help to cause i like the game but i dont really give a care about arguing over it anymore……as long as i know that i like it:)
Dude, if you like it, by all means, go for it, none of us are stopping you from liking a game we don’t like…
boredom, and the fact that most of the people that defend the game on here especially, seem to refuse to believe that the other side has valid points
How can you say the characters dont care about each other!?! When Aeris dies Cloud Falls apart Tifa walks up kisses her on the forehead and runs off crying and i dont know what the other characters do cuz i either dont remeber or they werent in my party.
All the characters were present for that scene. Anyway, I didn’t say that none of the characters cared about the others. I said most didn’t. Do you think Cid gave a damn about the other characters? Of course not. It was just because they had a common goal. Vincent certainly didn’t care. Yuffie had no deep connections to any other party member. And Cait Sith… you know that story as well as I, I’m sure.
But whether they were all friends is inconsequential anyway.
Cid and Shera obviously care about each other or cid would have luanched the rocket and killed her and shera wouldnt have saved cids life when the O2 tank blew up on him.
Granted, but Shera is hardly a major character. She’s nothing more than a peripheral character designed for Cid’s backstory.
Cloud and Tifa care about each other cuz if they didnt Tifa would have let Cloud fall to his death in the end and wouldnt have gotten him out of the life stream.
Again, this falls under the exceptions I allowed for.
And prak you broke up what i said so it doesnt make much sense i said "I know plenty of people who bought the game not just for its advertising, and those who think its just good for the advertising are just saying tthat to smash down others opinions…"
I broke it up to make separate counter-arguments. I split them at a point where they could have been divided into two sentences anyway.
And Prak you do realize that there is and equal or even bigger number of people who DO count final fantasy VII as one of the best games ever.
How do you know that? Have you taken an impartial vote? I seriously doubt it. Most polls you see on this kind of thing are on FF fan sites, which is hardly credible because only a very small minority of gamers frequent them. And those are likely to be biased already.
And you say a lot of my things are opinions well a lot of your things are opinions too such as your opinion is that it is good just for the advertising while mine and others are its good becuase of something else.
I didn’t say it was good for the advertising. I said that contributed greatly to its popularity, not its quality.
Another example of this is i say its fun and you say its not.
That is most certainly a matter of opinion. And as I have freely stated that I have no objection to people liking whatever they want to, I don’t see this line of conversation leading anywhere.
Chorns goes on about how 6 is better than 7 and thats an opinion
To say that FFVI is better than FFVII is not a statement of opinion. It is a statement of fact. An opinion would be "I believe FFVI is a better game." Whether chorns’ statement is correct is another matter entirely.
before you start saying our facts dont count becuase they’re opinions look through some of your facts and see how many are opinions.
Certainly, I give opinions. However, I reinforce them with supporting arguments. Debate 101 there.
And you say we repeat ourselves well for the past 2 or 3 pages youve been saying its the advertising its the advertising.
And I’ll do it as long as I have to. It’s a valid counterpoint to another argument that’s been used just as often, if not more so. If you’re allowed to repeat the same thing over and over and I’m not, I’ll eventually run out of material pretty quick.
And finally Prak im getting sick and tired of this arguing ill accept your opinions if you’ll accept mine. I personally think its one of the bes games ever and if you’ll accept that some peoples opinions are different and we just liked the game i will accept that some people dont like the game.
Hm. I never get sick of it. Oh well.
Anyway, I’m perfectly accepting of your opinions. However, I happen to disagree with them and will always say why in the context of a debate.
just quit trying to attack our opinions and make others hate the game and we will stop trying to make others love it
I’m not trying to make you hate the game. And I don’t interpret what others have been doing as an attempt to make me love it either. It’s a debate. Nothing more or less.
after all this thread is for those who love it and want to talk about why they love it while the other is for those who dont like and want to talk about why they dont like it.
Wrong. From page one, the other thread was a debate about the game’s quality, offering both sides a fair and equal opportunity to express their views. This one was a direct ripoff, so it’s only fair that it be treated the same way.
Incidentally, we’re not saying anything of value now, so you should either come up with new arguments or bow out gracefully.
hehehe
and prak whos that guy in ur damn sig i cannot figure it out and its frustrating me
Sure thing man. *gives popcorn*
*on topic* I’ve noticed that the advertising argument crops up a lot, but I have never seen an advert for 7 in England, thats not to say there arn’t any, but it had no relevance on me liking the game, and I’ve posted my reasons for liking 7 earlier so ‘m not going through it again…..
Ps the advertising thing is just a statement from my behalf, not an reason or excuse as to why I think the game is good…
Pass the popcorn please 🙂
You know, I could go for some popcorn, too. Who wants ultimate butter?
FFVII Haters-12 (posts-2)
The most revealing thing about these threads to me is that moderate FF7 fans (i.e. me) are arguing against the fanboys just because they’re making stupid comments and not because they think the game is bad.
No, you’re just being bastards about it. You debate and debate until nothing is proven (because really, It can’t be truly proven either way, since it’s all opinion, rather than fact as some people like to pretend) and continue on. It’s annoying. Like "flaming-gay-little-brother-in-your-face" annoying. But, since I am not actually offended or otherwise hold any value to anything said in this thread, I’m not gonna try and stop you from going onward. I’m too goddamn busy care about stupid things like this anyway.
Also: Why this thread is STILL around? Jeebus, you people are really tenacious. I’d admire that, but I’m inclined to dislike you.
Need I continue?
Hey prak i just got some info
FF7 was released in japan on 1/31/97 and in the us on 7/9/97
Blood Omen wasnt released until 11/17/97 thats almost a year later so yes its going to have better graphics it was the pc version that came before ff7 and pc always has better graphics than consoles becuase they can have better graphics cards plus ff7 was in development in 1996 so it has the best graphics of games in 1996 and 1997 and yes the PSX could have better graphics but at the time they didnt know that and if they did they probably didnt go better becuase they feared it might have caused problems its just like with the NES look at mario1 its graphics suck but at the time they thought that was as good as it would go then look at mario 3 its graphics are great for the NES and they’re better becuz they realized the NES could do more.
Hey prak i just got some info
FF7 was released in japan on 1/31/97 and in the us on 7/9/97
Blood Omen wasnt released until 11/17/97 thats almost a year later so yes its going to have better graphics it was the pc version that came before ff7 and pc always has better graphics than consoles becuase they can have better graphics cards plus ff7 was in development in 1996 so it has the best graphics of games in 1996 and 1997 and yes the PSX could have better graphics but at the time they didnt know that and if they did they probably didnt go better becuase they feared it might have caused problems its just like with the NES look at mario1 its graphics suck but at the time they thought that was as good as it would go then look at mario 3 its graphics are great for the NES and they’re better becuz they realized the NES could do more.
I agree, except that Prak fails to use any sort of coherent logic, so it doesn’t matter what he says.
Example:
All the characters were present for that scene. Anyway, I didn’t say that none of the characters cared about the others. I said most didn’t. Do you think Cid gave a damn about the other characters? Of course not. It was just because they had a common goal. Vincent certainly didn’t care. Yuffie had no deep connections to any other party member. And Cait Sith… you know that story as well as I, I’m sure.
But whether they were all friends is inconsequential anyway.
Ummm..duurrr? Friends obviously have feelings for each other; any retard can see that. Otherwise they wouldn’t really be friends, so it obviously does matter. But, since Prak is not a sporting loser, nothing of logic matters. I’m just wasting my breath.
FF7 was released in japan on 1/31/97 and in the us on 7/9/97
Blood Omen wasnt released until 11/17/97 thats almost a year later
I didn’r remember this before, but Blood Omen’s release date is actually really tricky to find. There are numerous different dates attached to it, so it can be hard to find out which one was correct. The earliest date I’ve found for it was September of 1996 and I’ve confirmed that it was released on PlayStation by the end of that year, so it actually predated FFVII. The PC version came much later. I think the date you found was the Japanese release.
plus ff7 was in development in 1996 so it has the best graphics of games in 1996 and 1997
Nope. The only graphical edge it had was its pre-rendered backgrounds.
and yes the PSX could have better graphics but at the time they didnt know that and if they did they probably didnt go better becuase they feared it might have caused problems
Whether they knew about it or not is irrelevant in the face of the fact that someone else did it better.
its just like with the NES look at mario1 its graphics suck but at the time they thought that was as good as it would go then look at mario 3 its graphics are great for the NES and they’re better becuz they realized the NES could do more.
Of course. Software is naturally going to use the hardware more effectively as time goes by. My point is that someone had already used it more effectively.
I agree, except that Prak fails to use any sort of coherent logic, so it doesn’t matter what he says.
Many would disagree with you. I assert that you are speaking out of bias.
Ummm..duurrr? Friends obviously have feelings for each other; any retard can see that. Otherwise they wouldn’t really be friends, so it obviously does matter.
Was there some kind of point to that? You said nothing of value. You spoke in general terms, but did not apply it to the issue at hand.
But, since Prak is not a sporting loser, nothing of logic matters. I’m just wasting my breath.
There’s a little flaw in your reasoning. I’m quite a good sport when I lose. It’s just that I haven’t lost, nor do I do so easily. And I should point out that the neutral concensus says that you guys are getting trashed.
Now stop trying (pathetically) to insult me and take up the debate if you think you have something of worth to say. On second thought, I don’t even care if you guys continue because I’m probably not even going to think about this anymore. I’m just gonna reply by quoting old points we’ve made unless you come up with new arguments.
wrong forum…
And your other facts on why the story is easy and lame and the battle system sux etc. are completely opinionated they all depend on how the person playing percieves it.
heh heh… (http://google-fight.com/cgi-bin/compare.pl?q1=Final+Fantasy+VII&q2=Final+Fantasy+III&B1=Make+a+fight%21&compare=1&langue=us) this was very pleasing to look at (just to let you know)…
Why can’t you just show us the damn site? Are you that frightened of us yelling at you for lying to us??
ooh, looks like someone was shot down (http://www.siliconknights.com/heritage/kain.htm), uhh…notice how it says 1996 there?? Ummm yeahhh…this came before FFVII!
But when it comes to a good game i could care less about graphics all i care about is the gameplay the story and the characters which all were good in ff7
the gameplay was good becuase it was easy to understand but still challenging becuase even though the battle system was easy to use it still had some tricks up its sleeve to make it challenging becuase of all the strategies such as the mime strategy.
The story i think is good becuase its just interesting and it has tons of unexpected twists in it such as aeris dying, clouds whole identity crisis on disc 2, all the stuff that happens when you return to midgar i just thought it was good and it had a lot of emotion in it.
The characters just seemed to have more depth in them than what they had in the previous ffs becuase they all knew each other beforehand and were very close in their own way the only previous ffs i can think of that did this were 2 3 and 4 and the characters werent really that close in those when you think about it.
But these are just my opinions and may i remind you that what you come up with to counter these is just your opinion as well in fact the only fact you can make is on graphics and sound which did it ever occur to you that squaresoft wanted ff7 to look the way it did even if it could look better? FF7 was supposed to look cartoony and anime like which is why the eyes are so big and the arms look so funny but the backrounds look pretty good for psx even the world map looks pretty good.
But when it comes to a good game i could care less about graphics all i care about is the gameplay the story and the characters which all were good in ff7
the gameplay was good becuase it was easy to understand but still challenging becuase even though the battle system was easy to use it still had some tricks up its sleeve to make it challenging becuase of all the strategies such as the mime strategy.
The story i think is good becuase its just interesting and it has tons of unexpected twists in it such as aeris dying, clouds whole identity crisis on disc 2, all the stuff that happens when you return to midgar i just thought it was good and it had a lot of emotion in it.
The characters just seemed to have more depth in them than what they had in the previous ffs becuase they all knew each other beforehand and were very close in their own way the only previous ffs i can think of that did this were 2 3 and 4 and the characters werent really that close in those when you think about it.
But these are just my opinions and may i remind you that what you come up with to counter these is just your opinion as well in fact the only fact you can make is on graphics and sound which did it ever occur to you that squaresoft wanted ff7 to look the way it did even if it could look better? FF7 was supposed to look cartoony and anime like which is why the eyes are so big and the arms look so funny but the backrounds look pretty good for psx even the world map looks pretty good.
I would believe the official site(hmm I wonder why?) I know for a fact that Square made the characters look like they did in FFs before VII because they didn’t have enough space to make em look very realistic(there was so much other stuff on the carts).
About Aeris’s death, three people die every minute, so get over it…how was miming hard?? How was any of the game hard?? It was overwhelmingly easy. Cloud’s case was nothing surprising, he was a typical screwed up main character…
As someone said, FFVII was a bit of an experiment on the PSX seeing as it was the first FF game on the console…but so what?? Blood Omen was Silicon Knight’s first PSX entry too and they did a better job with the graphics…Another thing, you just said that you could care less about the graphics, but now you say that it wouldn’t be the same?? But you just said that you didn’t care about the graphics! The background graphics are good because they are prerendered!!
No they did not know each other before the game starts!! Note how they have to introduce themselves to each other!(with exception of Tifa and Cloud), all they had was a common goal! Getting rid of Sephiroth! Notice how Cid reacts to Cloud when they first meet! That doesn’t seem very friendly…
The gameplay was very simple(easy for beginners)I would consider this to be more opinion(I tend to like more complicated magic systems, characters to have more personal techniques, or to have something like a job/class system)… Getting to see/hear Squall’s personal thoughts was much more personal than Cloud having a fucking breakdown…The world map looked pretty shitty…even for 1997. Oh yeah, some of this is FACT too, I won’t say all of it is though…
and legacy of kain was AWESOME
*OFF TOPIC* and to that jerk who said FF8 was better……id like to say yeah its pretty damn good…….im starting to enjoy 8’s story alot more than 7
but then again nothing can beat FF6 BABY!!!!
and legacy of kain was AWESOME
*OFF TOPIC* and to that jerk who said FF was better……id like to say yeah its pretty damn good…….im starting to enjoy 8’s story alot more than 7
but then again nothing can beat FF6 BABY!!!!
props to you man…
i didnt say it wouldnt be the same i said it wouldnt work and blood omens graphics suck the cinematics are ok but the gameplay is like the first diablo. And what you said back there about the gameplay and such is an opinion not a fact and i still dont believe you work for squaresoft and if they werent trying to make the characters look cartoony and anime like and it was all just b/c of space THEN WHY DID THEY GIVE THEM ANIME EYES WHY DID THEY GIVE THEM ANIME ARMS?????
I meant in FFI-VI they didn’t have enough space…Oh yeah, I don’t really care that you don’t believe me…we are both living our own lives…it’s not like we are roommates(boy would that suck)…
The most revealing thing about these threads to me is that moderate FF7 fans (i.e. me) are arguing against the fanboys just because they’re making stupid comments and not because they think the game is bad.
i’m tryin to be pretty fair, but yea, i’m probably a little more leniant on that side of things. but i guess u gotta face it, their side needs a slight handicap right now
slight?
The story i think is good becuase its just interesting and it has tons of unexpected twists in it such as aeris dying, clouds whole identity crisis on disc 2, all the stuff that happens when you return to midgar i just thought it was good and it had a lot of emotion in it.
The characters just seemed to have more depth in them than what they had in the previous ffs becuase they all knew each other beforehand and were very close in their own way the only previous ffs i can think of that did this were 2 3 and 4 and the characters werent really that close in those when you think about it.
FFVII Fanboys-6 (posts-3)
FFVII Haters-12 (posts-2)
About Aeris’s death, three people die every minute, so get over it…how was miming hard?? How was any of the game hard?? It was overwhelmingly easy. Cloud’s case was nothing surprising, he was a typical screwed up main character…
As someone said, FFVII was a bit of an experiment on the PSX seeing as it was the first FF game on the console…but so what?? Blood Omen was Silicon Knight’s first PSX entry too and they did a better job with the graphics…Another thing, you just said that you could care less about the graphics, but now you say that it wouldn’t be the same?? But you just said that you didn’t care about the graphics! The background graphics are good because they are prerendered!!
No they did not know each other before the game starts!! Note how they have to introduce themselves to each other!(with exception of Tifa and Cloud), all they had was a common goal! Getting rid of Sephiroth! Notice how Cid reacts to Cloud when they first meet! That doesn’t seem very friendly…
FFVII Fanboys-6 (posts-3)
FFVII Haters-13 (posts-3)
FFVII Haters-12 (posts-2)
FFVII Fanboys-6 (posts-3)
FFVII Haters-13 (posts-3)
thank you, I rarely get credit around here so that was nice…
Y’know I forgot to mention that Squall dies in the end of FFVIII(how many of you expected that?)
Y’know I forgot to mention that Squall dies in the end of FFVIII(how many of you expected that?)
did he actually die? I thought the end part with him and rinoa together ment he survived. That was definatly one of the more confusing endings i’ve seen.
And to add to that, it was much sadder in FFVI if you screw up and let Cid die in the world of ruin.
And to add to that, it was much sadder in FFVI if you screw up and let Cid die in the world of ruin.
FFVII Fanboys-6 (posts-3)
FFVII Haters-14 (posts-4)
Have you been paying any attention to our debate at all??
and anime arms are arms that are normal on the bicep and fore arm but get very narrow at the elbow look at most animes and you will see this.
also im not saying the other ffs sucked im just saying 7 was better becuase it was a good game and was fun and itintroduced new ideas that were caried on into the later ffs. Such as the limit breaks and the limit break bar in previous ffs you could only use limit breaks in certain battles at certain times in ff7 you could use them any time depending on if you bar was full or not and you didnt have to worry about dying before using it and then losing the chance to use it. another is characters that are preset to have certain abilities but can be adapted to do other ones and in previous ffs you could have 2 characters use the same weapons while in this one even if they use the same type of weapon two characters couldnt use the same one ex: vincent and barret both use guns but barret cant use vincents guns and vincent cant use barrets guns in previous one you could have all your characters use a knife or a short sword or a bow which took away the characters uniqueness while in 7 the characters had there own unique fighting style and weapon type and it couldnt be changed.
and anime arms are arms that are normal on the bicep and fore arm but get very narrow at the elbow look at most animes and you will see this.
also im not saying the other ffs sucked im just saying 7 was better becuase it was a good game and was fun and itintroduced new ideas that were caried on into the later ffs. Such as the limit breaks and the limit break bar in previous ffs you could only use limit breaks in certain battles at certain times in ff7 you could use them any time depending on if you bar was full or not and you didnt have to worry about dying before using it and then losing the chance to use it. another is characters that are preset to have certain abilities but can be adapted to do other ones and in previous ffs you could have 2 characters use the same weapons while in this one even if they use the same type of weapon two characters couldnt use the same one ex: vincent and barret both use guns but barret cant use vincents guns and vincent cant use barrets guns in previous one you could have all your characters use a knife or a short sword or a bow which took away the characters uniqueness while in 7 the characters had there own unique fighting style and weapon type and it couldnt be changed.
Most arms in anime look like regular arms(sorry to break it to ya…), and when I said unique techniques, obviously you didn’t understand what I meant, in FFVI they had unique abilities, not unique weapons…sure, Cloud and Barret might use different types of weapons, but in the end of the game they both do aout the max damage anyway so…what’s the difference? In VI, you have Setzer’s Slots, Cyan’s Sword Techs, Sabin’s Tools, Gau’s Rages, etc… that’s what I meant…Oh yeah…FFVII was better cause it was a good game?? That’s an opinion man…Some people here obviously think that other FF games were better…like FFVI, V, or VIII…and about the limit breaks, they were in VI and you would randomly be able to use them at anytime in the game as long as your health was low…
Storyline
I admit that the story was really hard for me to understand at first. Then again, I’m older now than I was when I first played it, so I am able to comprehend what really went on during the game. The more you think about it, the more you actually believe that the story is, in fact, not that good.
Also, the game tells everything you need to know, without doing some searching for clues. There is basically nothing you have to figure out on your own, which makes it a weak storyline. A good storyline makes you put some thought into what you are seeing unfold on the screen. It’s just all right there, laid out for you crystal clear.
Basically, one of my major views on whether a story is excellent, great, good, poor, or terrible, is how interested you are in playing the game again, once you have beaten it already. The first time I played through FFVII, I openly admit I thought it was a better than average story, maybe even really good. But, once you beat the game, you are just left with that disgusting taste in your mouth. You sit there and think "That’s it? That’s the end of FFVII"? This caused me to change my view on the story, from good, to not very good at all. FFVII has terrible replay value, because the story can be followed by a little puppy, of all things.
This is the storyline of FFVII:
You stay on a straight path, exactly like a timeline.
__________________________________________________
Notice how there aren’t any bumps or nicks in the line?
Every necessary event that is required for you to understand the plot is directly on the timeline. There are no twists and turns, no hills or holes, nothing. All you have to do is move Cloud around the places the game directs you to, and you will finish the game.
Need more proof that the storyline is linear? This is the exact format that the plot follows throughout the game:
Shinra is a bad company, so we need to stop them right now.
Done.
Mako is a good thing for the planet, so we shoud conserve it in anyway possible.
Done.
Sephiroth is the villian of the game. He killed Aeris, so we need to kill him.
Done.
This is the gist of the storyline. The point I want to make, is that there isn’t really any options as to what you are allowed to do in the game itself.
Like I said before, it’s like a straight timeline. Nothing to figure out on your own, and the game tells you pretty much everything you need to know.
An Unfinished Game
The guy in the pipe at the beginning of the game could very well possibly be Zack. But, Square didn’t add anything else to the game, that could have led you to finding out exactly who it was in there.
The guy who’s living in it is a normal human who was
infected with Jenova cells, that’s why he has a number 2 tattoo. After you have finished with dialouge in the Midgar Slums, you are told that an Elixer can be found in the pipe. But, when you go back there, you will not find an Elixer. Obviously, this is a mistake by Square, or quite possibly, an item they just took out of the game. But how could the item have gotten there in the first place?
The Nibelheim clones. Every guy in a black cloak gave us some item after we talked to him, right? And all the clones had a number tattoed on their body somewhere, just like the man in the pipe. But, if that’s the case, why wouldn’t this man give you an item as well?
If you want some more rock-solid evidence that FFVII isn’t and never will be a finished game, go here
Aeris’ Death
Aeris’ death is probably the defining moment in the game. Without it, most of the storyline wouldn’t make sense at all, because a good chunk of what happens after her death is revolved around the party’s resolve to not let her sacrifice be in vain.
Another thing: I don’t see why people get so riled up about this scene. Aeris was going to die sooner or later, so why not just get it over with? In fact, it would have been worse if she died later in the game. Her relationship would have improved with Cloud probably, and it would have been more uncessessary drama to see her die after this.
She knew that she was going to have to surrender her life anyway to summon Holy. After you have figured this out later in the game, you realize that her death is very overrated and not really dramatic.
The Importance of Aeris’ Death
When Aeris sacrificed herself, she didn’t know if her companions would even make it out of the area alive. She knew that Sephiroth was powerful and was unquestionably going to be there to try and stop them all. So, her sacrifice didn’t guarantee the party’s safety at all. Yes, her death was important for the storyline, but she was going to die regardless of whether or not Sephiroth did her in first.
When Aeris died, the whole story was pretty much laid out, and the party knew of the exact dangers that lie ahead of them.
Cloud in the Lifestream
Can you say incredibly boring? I mean, this sequence of events did reveal some important facts about Cloud and other necessities, but did Square have to do it in this fashion? I don’t see what the big deal about that was, anyway. I mean, Cloud was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. It’s not like he intentionally jumped into the Lifestream for no apparent reason or anything.
Still to this day, I see no importance in having that scene as part of the game. IMO, I thought it was just an excuse to get away from the mediocre, at best, storyline.
The Materia System
I absolutely hated the Materia System. Almost every materia you earn depletes your HP when you equip it, but it also grants you more abilities. So, it’s a double-edged sword really. You may be able to defeat your enemies with more ease, but they can also do the same to you. That’s pretty stupid if you ask me. Also, since the Materia depletes your HP and Strength, you have to waste even more slots to bring back up these two categories, with HP Plus, and Str. Plus.
I admit, that the Materia System was fresh and original. I will even go as far as to say it was interesting. But that’s it. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to work the Materia. You just equip it to your weapon and/or armor, watch your HP and Str. deplete, and fight enough enemies until you learn the ability. That is all there is to it. Plus, when you have the "All" materia equipped with one like "Cure", you are only allowed to use it a specific number of times during battle? Come on.
You say the Materia System takes some thinking and thought? Pfft. The strategy guide describes to you all of the basic combinations that you will ever need, even though it’s doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to work it. It isn’t complicated at all. You just put a Materia here and there, and you will come up with a combination that is good enough.
The Materia System is terrible. Some materia such as the KotR materia, reduces your maximum HP by 20%. So, you are capable of losing up to 2,000 of your Max HP, just by being able to cast a summon? That is pretty lame.
Also, the fact that you have to spend a lot of time in battles leveling up your Materia to a certain strongness is something that made the game very boring for me. I don’t want to spend hours earning AP, just so that my Choco/Mog summon can gain another star, and be that much closer to giving birth to a new Choco/Mog.
The Advertising of FFVII
FFVII is by-far the most advertised game in history. On the television ads, you would see the FMV’s from the game itself, because that was meant to be eye candy to consumers and customers alike. It seemed like I saw a commercial for this game everday, seven years ago.
Also, the strategy guide was released with the game. It was the first Final Fantasy game to do this, so that is another reason people loved this game immediately. Owners of local game shops everywhere were telling people to buy the strategy guide along with it, just to help with the publicity FFVII wanted to receive. With the stategy guide, gamers didn’t even have to think about what to do next, or where to go. Everything was given to them on a silver platter, so to speak.
What Makes FFVII So Popular
FFVII is one of the most popular games ever, because it is so easy to learn and finish. If Square made the game more difficult, then there is no question that people would be less appealed to purchase it. I mean seriously, this is one of the easiest games I have ever played in my life, and I’ve been playing for well over 16 years now.
And there is something wrong when a game is this simple. Games are supposed to be fun and challenging. FFVII provided a tiny bit, or really none at all. Video games should be designed that you at least have to ponder the storyline every now and then.
I also admit that there are some things that you need to stray off-course to acquire. You would have never found out that information without straying off-course some. But still, doing this isn’t required to finish the game. It wasn’t mandatory to find out this information, or get Vincent’s best weapon. This is all just side-quests, extra stuff that tries to add a little bit more fun to the game. It would be nice if there was something hard that was mandatory in the game.
The Strategy Guide
The strategy guide. Yes, like I said before, this was the first Final Fantasy game to come with a strategy guide. The book alone is a reason that led to the huge success of FFVII. Take away the strategy guide with the release of the game, and the game would be less popular today. I know that strategy guides are available for the previous Final Fantasy games, but they are really hard to find now. And, they were hard to find then, because I never saw one for FFIV or FFVI. I love the challenge of playing through a game without any help. But, obviously thousands of FFVII fans didn’t see it my way.
The game is incredibly easy. It tells you straight out what is playing out, in accordance with where you need to head next. You don’t have to do a little bit of hunting to find out what location you are supposed to be at. I didn’t actually need to look at the strategy guide to finish the game, because the story is so linear, and it is darn near impossible to stray off-course. The only reason I look at strategy guides is for replay value. When I play games again for the second time, I will always check the book to acquire all the hidden items and what-not. But I have never played FFVII since I finished it the first time, because there is no replay value there whatsoever.
Knights Of The Round
All you FFVII fans rave about how awesome of a summon Knights of the Round is. But, you don’t even need it to beat the game. I don’t understand why it takes an incredible amount of time (Chocobo racing), to be able to get the materia to summom KOTR. This summon helps make the game popular, while the fact of the matter is, KOTR is irrelevant to finishing the game.
You may also say that it takes some time to earn a Gold Chocobo to fly to the cave for the KOTR summon, and that that provides a challenge. But there’s no point to it. It takes way too long for you to do something as small as acquiring a useless summon.
It takes way too long to breed a Gold Chocobo. I mean seriously, the only reason you need the Gold Chocobo is to get the KOTR summon. Everything else you use the Chocobo for is pretty useless. And the really bad part, is that you don’t even need to breed to get a Chocobo. Just defeat one of the Weapons, and you can acquire a Gold Chocobo. I think it’s pretty stupid that they even put the breeding in the game. No use for it.
Manipulation
FFVII was a smash hit because the game manipulated it’s fans with these "outstanding" graphics, the "awesomeness" of a silver-haired villian with a huge ass sword, and the marketing it received.
Play Final Fantasy 1-6 First
Another reason that FFVII is so popular, is the fact that most of the fans of the game never played Final Fantasy 1-6. Seriously, if they had, they wouldn’t say that everything about the game is revolutionary. FFVI has a better storyline than FFVII, and also more personality in their characters. FFIV had the ongoing theme of the love triangle between Cecil, Kain, and Rosa.
What did FFVII have? A guy that tries to have sex with Cloud.
The Graphics
The graphics were some of the best anyone had ever seen when the game came out. Yes, it was nice to see this, but it subtracted from the storyline. I believe, basically, that the storylines of all the Final Fantasy games after VI have gone downhill. Square is putting more time and thought into graphical representation than storytelling, and that’s a shame.
You really can’t use the argument of FFVII’s graphics being revolutionary either. Take FFVIII for example; FFVIII is far superior and the release dates are only a couple years apart. By reading this, you would have to say that FFVIII was revolutionary in graphics, not FFVII. Of course the graphics were better than those of the SNES. But, what do you expect from a more powerful system in the Playstation?
The Limit Break
Quite frankly, I thought it was retarded. You aren’t allowed to physically attack anymore until you have used your Limit Break? That is so stupid. What happens if you are right before a big boss, and you earn your Limit Break. You don’t want to use it on weak enemies, and you certainly don’t want to spend more time earning the Limit Break again if you do decide to use it.
Shinra And The Turks
This is one thing I really hated about the game; the lack of Shinra and the Turks really being involved with the story more. I mean, Before Crisis is coming out now regarding the history of the Turks and such. But, I would have loved to see more about this in FFVII, not the prequel.
The Ending
I still, to this day, do not totally understand the ending. Probably because I see how it had nothing to do with the storyline. It just shows Red XIII overlooking a grassy Midgar? Wow, that’s awesome!
No, there was nothing to the ending. You see Red XIII running with his kids or whoever the little ones are. And then, it shows a grassy Midgar. That’s it! Usually when an ending is good, it has something to do with the storyline, or with what happened previously with the final boss. But this ending was crap. It didn’t make any sense, there was no meaning behind it. And it didn’t leave any imagination to me, because it had nothing to do with the game.
The Battle System
Another aspect I hated was that only three characters were in your party at a time. With FFIV, you could have all you need to win a battle; two attackers, one defender, one for healing and such, and one for summons. FFIV did marvelous with making your final party fit into a specific role. Rydia is the summoner, Rosa is the one that keeps the party alive, Kain is a deadly assassin, Edge strikes quickly and brutally, and Cecil is the perfect hero who both attacks his enemies and protects his friends. I didn’t see this at all in FFVII.
Sephiroth
Greatest villian of all time?
No. Sephiroth is maybe a descent villian, but I don’t consider him to be better than someone like Kefka, by a longshot.
I never found Sephiroth to be that evil, and certainly not sadistic. He had a reason to go crazy, because he was created. That’s pretty much it. Look at Kefka. Now there is a sadistic and truly evil villian.
For instance, Sephiroth kills Aeris from behind, flys away when danger is near (Cloud), and always manipulates Cloud to do his dirty work. If you ask me, that sounds kind of cowardish.
Kefka wouldn’t kill Aeris from behind. He would do it so that she could see him deliver the finishing blow. Then, knowing that her death is not good enough, he would stand over the body and laugh *grr*, and then slice her head off. And he wouldn’t run away from the scene of the crime either.
Sephiroth is a boring and flat character. He never scared me with anything he did. His atmosphere never drove me to hate him, like villians are supposed to do. I don’t see what is so special about Sephiroth? His Masamune?
If you think Sephiroth is the best Final Fantasy villian ever, you need to play, preferably, FFVI again. Sephiroth is really one-dimensional, in the sense that he basically had only one goal.
Also, he did some irrelevant actions during the game.
Why was he goofing and messing around at the Gold Saucer?
He did kill Aeris, but he was a coward when he did it.
Maybe the most important thing, is that he was basically sleeping throughout most of the game. Then, near the end, he wakes up, and grows a wing and halo?
Sephiroth is not that cool.
Rufus
I thought Rufus was pretty random. I mean, the point when you learn Sephiroth kills Rufus’s father, and then the presidency is granted to Rufus, was pretty stupid. There was no meaning in it, and it basically didn’t add anything to the story. Except to make you think Sephiroth is this out of control villain who can’t be stopped.
Zack
And yes, I have heard the rumor of Zack being the man in the pipe. But, you meet him so early in the game, that you have no idea why he is there or what the tattoo is for. And, once you reach the point in the game where you learn about the men with numbers tattooed on their bodies, you don’t remember about the man in the pipe at all. It’s only when you replay the game after beating it that you realize it may be Zack in the pipe. I, for one, honestly do not believe Zack was killed when he got pegged with countless bullets. How he could have survived, I don’t know that. The game would have been better if it dove more into him and his past, but it didn’t.
Mini-Games
I found the Mini-Games to be entertaining, for about a minute. The Gold Saucer is so boring and useless to the story, that there is no reason to even visit again after you are required to. Helping a Moogle have sex with another Moogle has got to be the most bizarre mini-game to date. Arm Wresting, Basketball, Kick-Boxing? Yes, there are a variety of mini-games in FFVII, but there is no big reward for them. With Blitzball in FFX, you received a lot better rewards for winning matches and scoring goals.
Variety, I will give to you. It had sumo-wrestling, kick-boxing, basketball, motorcycycle riding, and several more that I don’t feel like listing. But quality? That is where I draw the line at. Aren’t mini-games supposed to give you at least a descent reward?
What do you get for getting a Moogle laid?
30 points.
Now <B>this</B> is what you call sticking up for what you believe in.
FFVII Haters-23 (posts-5)
And you say once Aeris died the characters and you know exactly whats coming next. Heres what i say to that are you and the characters psychic NO. all they know at this point is Sephioth=Bad We=Good so lets go kill him they know nothing else. they and you the player know nothing of the weapons the crater and cloud going loopy and getting lost in the lifestream god you dont even know about holy and that the white orb aeris dropped was the white materia. there is still pleanty to figure out at this point.
And when you complain about not being able to physically attack with a limit break this is just the game being hard and challenging and telling you to be creative there are pleanty of other things to do besides physically attack and use magic. theres deathblow, manipulate, god u can just not use that character or RUN AWAY FOR GODS SAKE!!
And with breeding chocobos and gold saucer thats just something for you to do for fun when you get bored with the story and battles. its so you can do something else for a bit.
The ending isnt that bad becuz the game has given you enough information for you to come up with your own theories. and when it shows midgar 500 years later it is showing you that the wound of the planet has healed. look at it this way holy originally is helping meteor becuase the planet is like midgar is my wound and the humans that infest it are the cuase for the wound so i will destroy the cuase so it will never happen again then aeris who is in the lifestream is like wait these are my friends yes they can be bad but give them a chance so she calls upon the lifestream to destroy meteor and save the human race then 500 years later it shows you the wound is healed and the human race has learned its lesson and is not sucking the planets life away anymore. see what a little thought can do.
And when you say they didnt have enough info on the nonimportant characters all i have to say is you cant tell everyones story at once and if they did it would be too much at once. they give you enough info to make theories and for you to understand things.
When you complain about how materia takes away from you hp well master it and it wont but like i said you dont have to if you want a challenge. But that is part of beating the game becuase i see beating a game as completing everything possible. Materia is part of the challenge of the game you’re just trying to take it away. if you take away the hp reduction but still have the spells and such then materia is just a powerful weapon the double sided sword is a good thing becuase you are sacrificing your life to use materia which makes it challenging if you took away the hp reduction then your just making the game easier which you obviosly hate.
And when you said this "For instance, Sephiroth kills Aeris from behind, flys away when danger is near (Cloud), and always manipulates Cloud to do his dirty work. If you ask me, that sounds kind of cowardish." all i have to say is wow you just contridcited youself in a run on sentence congratss 🙂 It takes a real IDIOT to do that. the reason i say this is becuase if sephiroth can manipulate cloud THEN WHERE THE HELL IS ALL THE DANGER!! and its not cowardice to use all your resources to kill someone. and finally thats not sephiroth its jenova becuz sephiroth is frozen in the crater and she doesnt run away she says things and then leaves part of herself behind to destroy them while goes to do other things maybe if you played the game a second time you’d catch these things.
FFVII Haters-23 (posts-5)
just stating opinions amongst urselves about the difficulty of the game
they already knew they had to stop him from summoning meteor, which was the main idea of stopping him, that and getting revenge, both things that were layed out by this point.
point for being creative enough to contradict them saying the game is too easy yet saying the materia is bad because it makes them weaker(and essentially harder)
no, I wouldn’t call that countering, I would call that fumbling…
point for the planet surviving metior and holy
the rest of hte post is based primarily on opinions, so no more points
HELL THIS ENTIRE STUPID THREAD IS OPIINON WHETHER THE GAME IS GOOD OR NOT IS FREAKKIN OPINION SO IF YOU DON"T COUNT OPINION INTO THIS FOR ONE DAMN MINUTE THEN DON"T FUCKING POST!
ok….Chorns, or anyone else. Did Cloud and the group know of sephiroth’s plans to summon meteor by the end of disk 1? I’ll tell you what, if someone else will confirm it, cause i haven’t played the game in a few months so its possible i could be wrong, so if others will tell me they didnt’ know about meteor by then, you’ll get another point
Chorns argument can be considered a repetive statemtents with different supporting facts… so sometimes arguments are repetivive…
and maybe u should stop resorting to name calling just becuase u didn’t get the points u thought u would for ur post.
maybe you should stop taking things out of context
maybe you should stop taking things out of context
oh i read, and theres nothing there about meteor, them knowing or not, but when you generalize saying they ONLY know that he=bad, then it will be generalized that they DONT know anything that wasn’t mentioned, like meteor, therefore, why your post is worth 2 points
also you’re just going anal over this one thing that your missing the entire point of that paragraph. the point is that there is still plenty to figure out not all the little details also i didnt put in all the details for the sake of keeping it short
and at this point i have more respect for prak becuase he unlike you two actually looks at and analysizes the entire thing and will say ok i have to say this fact is good or this fact isnt good becuase… you guys just rip things apart and take things out of context and dont look at the entire thing to get the entire meaning.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
And you say once Aeris died the characters and you know exactly whats coming next. Heres what i say to that are you and the characters psychic NO. all they know at this point is Sephioth=Bad We=Good so lets go kill him they know nothing else. they and you the player know nothing of the weapons the crater and cloud going loopy and getting lost in the lifestream god you dont even know about holy and that the white orb aeris dropped was the white materia. there is still pleanty to figure out at this point.
Quote: By omnislash
they already knew they had to stop him from summoning meteor, which was the main idea of stopping him, that and getting revenge, both things that were layed out by this point.
how is what i said and opinion that is a fact becuase a games difficulty is all determined by how you play it plus i never said i think or i believe in it to make it an opinion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
And when you complain about not being able to physically attack with a limit break this is just the game being hard and challenging and telling you to be creative there are pleanty of other things to do besides physically attack and use magic. theres deathblow, manipulate, god u can just not use that character or RUN AWAY FOR GODS SAKE!!
Quote: By Omnislash
point for being creative enough to contradict them saying the game is too easy yet saying the materia is bad because it makes them weaker(and essentially harder)
how does this make any sense and what does it have to do with what you quoted?
and you apparently dont know what to say cuz now ur rambling
sorry man, I don’t see anything about being afraid of water in the dictionary…
rabies translates into hydrophobia fear of water. when it attacks the brain for some reason it makes the victim afraid of water this is why you never see a dog with rabies near a pool or lake. and rabid is just relating to rabies so it means fear of water
look at what rabies does
stalemate?…
FFVII Fanboys-9 (posts-5)
FFVII Haters-23 (posts-5)
really though, its far from a stalemate. Prak pretty much rips apart anything you or someone else comes up with. i’m not saying their can’t be solid arguments made for the game, but there are very few as compared to mainly solid ones against it.
and obviously it is the fact he has killed aerith and the FACT HE IS SUMMONING meteor that makes him bad
also i didnt put in all the details for the sake of keeping it short
thats your problem right there. you don’t put in all the details to keep it short. when your trying to debate something, you dont wanna skip details to keep it short, you include as much detail as possible to solidify your examples. like you said all they know about him is he=bad and thats all they know, which is why i mention meteor, cause i thought they already knew about it by then, but i wasn’t 100% sure if they did, so i asked to make sure. when u say all they know is he=bad, you have to use the details, he=bad cause he killed aeris and wanted to summon meteor ect.
so yea i assumed your saying they dont know about meteor yet because of how u worded it saying that was all they knew about him. yea i assume things all the time and can tend to misread things at times, but when your going against people that know how to debate like prak, you can’t just ignore mentioning details like that, because otherwise you get people like me who will assume because u didn’t present all of the evidence in ur argument
thats where hte problem lies. both sides dont’ have equally convincing arguments. most people will agree that prak’s side presents a much stronger argument. and as far as the points go, even chorns said i was being way to generous with giving ur side more points than you deserved
and he just said i guess your right it is a stalemate your just trying to burn wood on a fire that has gone out.
Look at what I wrote, I said I’m not that good at debates…
are you talking to me or him chorns
i’m guessing the . . . was supposed to mean you don’t really agree?
does anyone else agree
A debate doesn’t go on til one side gives up or can’t say anything else, you know. Victory is determined by the observers, so you – being a participant – cannot possibly claim a stalemate. To do so shows both extreme arrogance and desperation.
A debate doesn’t go on til one side gives up or can’t say anything else, you know. Victory is determined by the observers, so you – being a participant – cannot possibly claim a stalemate. To do so shows both extreme arrogance and desperation.
thats exactly what i’ve been wanting to say. trekki seems to think taht just because he countered at all taht hes automatically equal, when in reality, his, along with most of the fanboy counters are very weak, making things very far from a stalemate
First, you stated that the game being too easy is the fault of the player. That’s ridiculous. It isn’t the responsibility of a player to make sure they get challenged by the game.
Second, you used relatively minor plot developments as a basis for the story being unpredictable. They proved to be irrelevant because the story still progressed along the same basic path despite them. Your outlook on the game’s events does not shift one iota because of them.
Third, all you had to say in defense of the limit system was, "You can do something else." You offered no sensible justification for the inconvenience or the mockery of simple logistics.
Fourth, all you said about the minigames was that it a bit of fun stuff on the side and nothing more. You did not address what we believe to be the abysmal quality of those minigames and their lack of any suitable reward for the time you invest in them.
Fifth, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: A good story completes itself. An incomplete ending is inexcusable in a stand-alone game, which we all know FFVII was meant to be. You say it allows you to make up your own theories. We say Square copped out of giving a real ending and your interpretation excuse is just a flimsy cover for what you know in your hearts to be a huge failing in the game.
Sixth, what’s wrong with more info on the supporting characters? Story depth was a good thing last time I checked. It wouldn’t have detracted from the game in any way. And again, I assert that leaving that much open for theorizing was a massive failure.
Seventh, you included speculation in your assessment of Aerith’s death. There is no evidence other than pure conjecture of what truly killed her. You say it was Jenova that did it, not Sephiroth? How can you tell?
EDIT: BizarroSephiroth, it looks like you TOTALLY missed the whole point here. We’re debating the game’s quality.
ok
*sigh* You really wanna know what was weak in your reply to Smokey? Okay…
First, you stated that the game being too easy is the fault of the player. That’s ridiculous. It isn’t the responsibility of a player to make sure they get challenged by the game.
Second, you used relatively minor plot developments as a basis for the story being unpredictable. They proved to be irrelevant because the story still progressed along the same basic path despite them. Your outlook on the game’s events does not shift one iota because of them.
Third, all you had to say in defense of the limit system was, "You can do something else." You offered no sensible justification for the inconvenience or the mockery of simple logistics.
Fourth, all you said about the minigames was that it a bit of fun stuff on the side and nothing more. You did not address what we believe to be the abysmal quality of those minigames and their lack of any suitable reward for the time you invest in them.
Fifth, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: A good story completes itself. An incomplete ending is inexcusable in a stand-alone game, which we all know FFVII was meant to be. You say it allows you to make up your own theories. We say Square copped out of giving a real ending and your interpretation excuse is just a flimsy cover for what you know in your hearts to be a huge failing in the game.
Sixth, what’s wrong with more info on the supporting characters? Story depth was a good thing last time I checked. It wouldn’t have detracted from the game in any way. And again, I assert that leaving that much open for theorizing was a massive failure.
Seventh, you included speculation in your assessment of Aerith’s death. There is no evidence other than pure conjecture of what truly killed her. You say it was Jenova that did it, not Sephiroth? How can you tell?
EDIT: BizarroSephiroth, it looks like you TOTALLY missed the whole point here. We’re debating the game’s quality.
Now how are the weapons, learning about holy, and that aeris has summoned holy minor plot developments. These are all discovered after aeris’ death. all they know about holy and meteor is that meteor is summoned and will kill the planet and that a thing called the white materia will stop it. and the weapons HELLO YOU HAVE TO DEFEAT THEM TO PROGRESS THROUGH THE STORY!!!! if they werent in there then when you get to the crater the first time it would end there cuz ud kill sephiroth right then and there.
The minigames were fun and they were mirrored of of fun games at the time. The motorcycle game-Road Rash Snowboarding-Cool Boarders and battle square is there for you to test your limits. and the rewards arent ok they’re great think final attack- most helpful materia in the game Omnislash- Clouds best limit break yes you dont need them to win but they are great and worth the effort.
Not all good stories complete themselves for example The Lady, and the Tiger…. what I would like to call "The Ultimate Cliffhanger." If you haven’t read it I would suggest you do. Extremely powerful. It basically leaves you wondering if the guy gets kills or if he weds. Now, you say a good story completes itself. But this story doesn’t… it leaves you wondering. Now, this alone may not sway you, but I would like to inform you that the story was extremely popular, not only because of the cliff hanger… but because it was extremely well-told and had a strong impact. I believe that Final Fantasy relates to this story. Sure… it doesn’t have as deep a meaning as The Lady and the Tiger, but it does leave you wondering what happens. A good story compeltes itself. Pfftt…. in your dreams. Tell that to many japnese people and they’ll laugh at you look at some of the major anime pictures and you’ll see that it leaves you wondering what happened.
Hmm… honestly I think all the characters had enough personality that they seemed to be backed up fairly well…Barrett in the beginning only sought revenge against ShinRa for his hometown… but as the story progressed he moved from anger to compassion to fight for marelene instead of fighting for revenge, Tifa…. welll…….. she kinda weird the best I can come up with is that they just fought together to begin with.. but as the story progessed she didn’t want to see Cloud fight alone… so she always wanted to help him…. This was displayed by Cloud’s flashback after he fell into the Mako, how she helped him find himself. I think she didn’t want him to be alone. Yuffie….at first you see her as some punk-thief… but then you start to realize the true reasons that Yuffie fights it regain the importance of her village, she wants to bring it back up… Vincent… has issues he was once a Turk… loved a woman…… she dumped him… gave birth to the ultimate evil….. and he regrets thigns…He kept to himself most of the game… so we never learn a lot about him. Cait Sith is clearly a spy to begin with, but then he realizes what ShinRa is doing and decides that the best course of action would to help Cloud and company You could even consider him a "mini-hero" heros go through a "fake death" where they are reborn stronger than before he even sacrificed himself for them.. Cid begins by having an issue with shera and want to be in space only to find when he really gets there its not that great and when he is leaving the rocket he finds out that shera was right and respects her. Aeris… well… she starts off as a flower girl in a church without much of a life…. only know a little bit about her past… but she becomes a major player… that well dies… but again "fake-death" plays a roll, while she is not revived in a tangible form, she takes part in the life-stream and "saved the earth from disaster"(If you believe that is what the ending meant) She is continually a sign of hope and life in the story. and red13 He holds a grudge against his father.. and hates him for it… but after he learns of his father sacrifice he’s trust is renewed and he fights willing to sacrifice himself for his friends and family. and enough has been said about cloud already so im not going to bother. all the characters were developed to the point that anymore development would have been beating the point to death. adn the other cahracters u guys talk about are not that important.
Now we know after the crater incident where cloud gives sephiroth the black materia that it couldnt have been sephiroth who killed aeris the only other option is jenova whom sephiroth set free 5 years ago in Nibelhiem. but then cloud killed him so people were pissed so they made a new one with jenova cells that they cacooned in the crater so it was the essence of sephiroth that killed her since he can control jenova so jeonva looking like sephiroth killed aeris then left behind jenova life while jenova death left. this is all in the game you just have to look for it and piece it together.
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ok this is what i dont get
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrekkiesUnite118
tell me why what i said in response to what smokey is weak. all you found was one little detail and didnt even look to see the point i was trying to prove.
ok
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prak
*sigh* You really wanna know what was weak in your reply to Smokey? Okay…
First, you stated that the game being too easy is the fault of the player. That’s ridiculous. It isn’t the responsibility of a player to make sure they get challenged by the game.
Second, you used relatively minor plot developments as a basis for the story being unpredictable. They proved to be irrelevant because the story still progressed along the same basic path despite them. Your outlook on the game’s events does not shift one iota because of them.
Third, all you had to say in defense of the limit system was, "You can do something else." You offered no sensible justification for the inconvenience or the mockery of simple logistics.
Fourth, all you said about the minigames was that it a bit of fun stuff on the side and nothing more. You did not address what we believe to be the abysmal quality of those minigames and their lack of any suitable reward for the time you invest in them.
Fifth, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: A good story completes itself. An incomplete ending is inexcusable in a stand-alone game, which we all know FFVII was meant to be. You say it allows you to make up your own theories. We say Square copped out of giving a real ending and your interpretation excuse is just a flimsy cover for what you know in your hearts to be a huge failing in the game.
Sixth, what’s wrong with more info on the supporting characters? Story depth was a good thing last time I checked. It wouldn’t have detracted from the game in any way. And again, I assert that leaving that much open for theorizing was a massive failure.
Seventh, you included speculation in your assessment of Aerith’s death. There is no evidence other than pure conjecture of what truly killed her. You say it was Jenova that did it, not Sephiroth? How can you tell?
EDIT: BizarroSephiroth, it looks like you TOTALLY missed the whole point here. We’re debating the game’s quality.
ok omnislash what was the point of posting this it has nothing to do with anything stop posting this nonsense. god omnislash 163 posts of meaningless shit.
and i have given examples from the game to support my points you just dont want to accept that the fans have equally convincing points as the haters. and i didnt say my opponents were the only ones whos facts were opinions i said that EVERYBODYS facts are opinions. the reason i type things in caps is to emphasize my points. and like i said before creators dont make games easy or hard players make games easy or hard. the only reason people complain about why the battles in 7 are easy is becuz they went and massivly leveled up so it would be easier you can do the same thing in the previous ff games that you claim are harder for example in 5 i sat in an area for a month and did nothing but level up and now all my characters are level 99 and the game is pathetically easy now. so 7 is hard and easy it all depends on who is playing it and what level there party is at. and finally what have i done that prak and rabid monkey and chorns havent i have stated points and presented convincing evidence from the game to back it up i have just done it in a more emotional way. infact thats why you guys come down on the fans b/c thier arguments are full of pathos meaning emotional. and whats so bad about being more emotional in our arguments? it just means we believe more strongly in our beleifs and if you dont beleive me with this look at mark antony’s speech in shakespears Julius Ceasar.
hahahahahahaha… liar… hahahahahaha
You got your ass kicked in every pathetic attempt you made to prove VII was the greatest FF.
exactly…..but i’m the one with with all meaningless posts. I love how he has to resort to personal insults becuase he gets called on his weak arguments
and i have given examples from the game to support my points you just dont want to accept that the fans have equally convincing points as the haters. and i didnt say my opponents were the only ones whos facts were opinions i said that EVERYBODYS facts are opinions. the reason i type things in caps is to emphasize my points. and like i said before creators dont make games easy or hard players make games easy or hard. the only reason people complain about why the battles in 7 are easy is becuz they went and massivly leveled up so it would be easier you can do the same thing in the previous ff games that you claim are harder for example in 5 i sat in an area for a month and did nothing but level up and now all my characters are level 99 and the game is pathetically easy now. so 7 is hard and easy it all depends on who is playing it and what level there party is at. and finally what have i done that prak and rabid monkey and chorns havent i have stated points and presented convincing evidence from the game to back it up i have just done it in a more emotional way. infact thats why you guys come down on the fans b/c thier arguments are full of pathos meaning emotional. and whats so bad about being more emotional in our arguments? it just means we believe more strongly in our beleifs and if you dont beleive me with this look at mark antony’s speech in shakespears Julius Ceasar.
Your strong points should emphasize themselves, FFVII is super ultra easy if you get all the characters up to level 99!! In fact any Final Fantasy that uses the same leveling up system that FFVII does will be easy at level 99!! What we are saying is that FFVII can be easy to beat at level 50 or 60!! Hell, first time I ever played through the game I beat it with Cloud at level 43 without the Ultima Weapon and it was still pretty damn easy!! Don’t think it isn’t cause you would be wrong!! I know that for a fact!! When we are less emotional I think we can sort out fact from opinion better.
But just to retain my credibility, I’ll answer his arguments.
1: It is not a gamer’s responsibility to make a game challenging. Period. The game is as hard as the developers made it. And they made it easy.
2: The plot developments you mentioned are minor because they do not change the player’s outlook on the game. Sephiroth and Shinra are still bad. Mako is still good, as is anyone trying to preserve it. You merely look at the other stuff and think, "Obstacle on the path. Must defeat."
3: I have previously stated that Battle Square was the only worthwhile minigame. The others are garbage because they offer no decent rewards for the time you invest in them. If I wanted a change of pace from the rest of the game, I’d just put in another game that would be more fun than the minigames.
4: The Lady and the Tiger makes a poor counterargument because it was meaningful. There was no meaning in the end of FFVII, just a gaping lack of it, which could only be filled by personal interpretations. And as for bad anime endings, I always get pissed off at those also.
5: You pointed out the individual stories for all the characters, but what you failed to make mention of was that they had nothing else. One quick side (or small segment of the main path) trip told all that the game had to offer. Their limited development was forced on you all at once. After that, their tales faded into the background, leaving too many unanswered questions.
6: Your analysis of the Jenova/Sephiroth relationship is, I say again, based largely on speculation and interpretation. There is no factual evidence that clearly defines what happened, no matter how deep you dig.
A quick side note: I received an interesting PM today from Cid Highwind. All he said was that I should change my name from Prak to Prick. I wonder if it had anything to do with this. I couldn’t tell because he included no context, just a lame-ass insult.
If you listen to Sephiroth on the Path to the Northern Crater he clearly states that "the ability to change one’s looks & voice is the will of Jenova"
Also about the white materia, We are never certain as to what it does, I’m not even certain Aeris knows. I quote
Cloud: Good for nothin’? You probably just don’t know how to use it…
Aeris: [shakes head] No, I do, It just doesn’t do anything…
Which was said in relation to Cloud, not Sephiroth.
Also about the white materia, We are never certain as to what it does, I’m not even certain Aeris knows. I quote
Cloud: Good for nothin’? You probably just don’t know how to use it…
Aeris: [shakes head] No, I do, It just doesn’t do anything…
Okay. What’s the point to that? You just made a dot, but another dot is needed to form a line.
oh and the dot thing is the end of Aeris’s speach Iirc
Yes it was said in reference to Cloud, but thats no reason to say that Jenova itself couldn’t take on the form and personality of Sephiroth.
oh and the dot thing is the end of Aeris’s speach Iirc
Yes it was said in reference to Cloud, but thats no reason to say that Jenova itself couldn’t take on the form and personality of Sephiroth.
But, it was never said that Jenova itself could do that, right
yep, and the lack of explaining things too…
And ive said it once and ill say it agian any game can be made hard depending on how you play it. for example some people who play mario 3 find it extremely hard and trust me i know cuz my cousins and my friends are some of them while some people find it extremely easy becuase they know secrets and techniques that make it easy for them. the same is true about ff7. if you dont know a pheonix down will 1 hit kill an undead enemy than undead enemies and bosses may be hard for you, if you dont know about certain spells summons and techniques then some boss battles may be extremely hard for you example: emerald weapon can be extremely hard even if you have KOTR and omnislash and ultimate weapons becuase its attacks can kill even lvl 99 characters in one hit. now if youtyr kotr and limit breaks and all those things it can still be hard, but if all your characters can mime than this battle is extremely easy becuase you can just have one person summon KOTR and have everyone else mime it and in no time emerald weapon will fall. so see it all depends on how the player plays it that determine if a game is easy or not.
The only possible explanation for who killed aeris is that it was Jenova. this is becuase sephiroth is cacooned in the crater and jenova can take any form it pleases. so to make sure holy wasnt summoned and sephiroth could be awakened jenova killed aeris to stop holy while taking the form of sephiroth so it would lure cloud and the others to the crater. so it couldnt possibly be the real sephiroth that killed aeris becuase it is physically impossible for a person to be two places at once. the real sephiroth doesnt come into the picture until after cloud awakens him with the balck materia.
like i said all this is in the game you just have to look for it and piece it together.
I’d have to say that The Lady, and the Tiger makes the perfect counter-argument. It gives you enough information that you can draw your own conclusion leaving you with a meaningful experience of what you feel at the end.
Final Fantasy VII is just like this. The whole entire game is centered around life or Mako, and death, Midgar. You could even consider these the two doors that the man were forced to chose from. The game builds and builds on this giving you information to help you make your final decision. So finally the ending comes, and it leaves you hanging. To whether or not the earth chose Life or Death and it is up for you to decide…. but wait…. they leave a little special clip at the end… the scene with Nanaki that can help sway your decision. In all honestly, Final Fantasy VII’s ending was brilliant. And to say that The Lady and the Tiger and Final Fantasy VII are nothing alike is just a horrible comparison. Clearly, two doors are in both, and only one can be chosen. These both have great impacts on your opinion of the world. I don’t know how you can say Final Fantasy VII has no meaning…. When it carries a similar message of Life and Death as The Lady and the Tiger. Yet you say The Lady, and the Tiger was meaningful…. it just doesn’t make sense to me how things that are so similar can be perceived by you as entirely different. I just cannot fathom it, I’m sorry. There are moral issues I haven’t even covered here that are centered around this Life and Death theme, that all add to the story and I would be glad to share them with you.
and the plot developments i mentioned do change the characters course, if they didnt learn about holy then they’d have no idea what the hell to do in the meteor, and the weapons maybe dont change their paths but didnt you notice they only attacked when someone was trying to stop meteor? the frist weapon attacked the mako cannon b/c it saw it as a threat to destroy meteor, diamond attacked when the makko cannon was fired at the crater, ultima weapon attacked mideel becuase cloud was there and it knew cloud was a threat to the crater and later returned for an attack after the rocket was fired at meteor and emerald weapon is there to stop you from getting the key of the ancients.
the characters are developed they had pesonalities and you knew enough about their pasts to understand thier motives and personalities. any more anlaysis would be overdoing it cuz theres nothing more anyone wants to know avout the main characters in fact the only one whos past you dont fully know is cait sith but you know enough about him to understand his motives and if i remeber correctly isnt cait sith one of the turks. and the other character you want to know about arent main characters and arent in the story enough to even bother telling more about them you know all you need to know about those characters to understand the story and thier motives you cant explain everyones tale just those who are in the story a lot and the people reading/watching/playing the story care most about. for example in "to kill a mockingbird" are the ewells expalined in as much depth as the finches NO are the cunninghams explained in as much depth as the finches NO and is the book frowned upon for poor character development becuase they didnt tell enough about the nonimportant characters NO infact it is praised for its character development becuase you know enough about the main characters and their personality who are the ones you care about most in the story. and in ff7 this is the same you know enough about the main characters, the ones you care about most, and thier personalities to know what they are like and what they would do in certain situations.
and finally putting emotion into ones argument is not a bad thing it is a good thing. it means they are more deeply involved in thier beliefs and can sway a crowd more easily becuase they seem more human and can reach the audiances emotions more easily. while those who are less emotional seem more inhuman to an audiance and causes them to dislike that person more than the emotional one.
this can obviously be seen in many speeches where the a crwod is swayed more towards the emotional one than the less emotional one becuase he seems more human and can reach them better.
And ive said it once and ill say it agian any game can be made hard depending on how you play it. for example some people who play mario 3 find it extremely hard and trust me i know cuz my cousins and my friends are some of them while some people find it extremely easy becuase they know secrets and techniques that make it easy for them. the same is true about ff7. if you dont know a pheonix down will 1 hit kill an undead enemy than undead enemies and bosses may be hard for you, if you dont know about certain spells summons and techniques then some boss battles may be extremely hard for you example: emerald weapon can be extremely hard even if you have KOTR and omnislash and ultimate weapons becuase its attacks can kill even lvl 99 characters in one hit. now if youtyr kotr and limit breaks and all those things it can still be hard, but if all your characters can mime than this battle is extremely easy becuase you can just have one person summon KOTR and have everyone else mime it and in no time emerald weapon will fall. so see it all depends on how the player plays it that determine if a game is easy or not.
The only possible explanation for who killed aeris is that it was Jenova. this is becuase sephiroth is cacooned in the crater and jenova can take any form it pleases. so to make sure holy wasnt summoned and sephiroth could be awakened jenova killed aeris to stop holy while taking the form of sephiroth so it would lure cloud and the others to the crater. so it couldnt possibly be the real sephiroth that killed aeris becuase it is physically impossible for a person to be two places at once. the real sephiroth doesnt come into the picture until after cloud awakens him with the balck materia.
like i said all this is in the game you just have to look for it and piece it together.
Now the ending in ff7 was meaningful you just have to think a little on it which is what the creators wanted, they wanted the fans to come up with their own unique solutions you who say it sucks just dont have an imagination to do this. and wheres all the fun if they hand everything to you on a silver platter? then there are no lose end for you to come up with you own theories their are many great movies out there that are like this and no one complains about them.
and the plat developments i mentioned do change the characters course, if they didnt learn about holy then they’d have no idea what the hell to do in the meteor, and the weapons maybe dont change their paths but didnt you notice they only attacked when someone was trying to stop meteor? the frist weapon attacked the mako cannon b/c it saw it as a threat to destroy meteor, diamond attacked when the makko cannon was fired at the crater, ultima weapon attacked mideel becuase cloud was there and it knew cloud was a threat to the crater and later returned for an attack after the rocket was fired at meteor and emerald weapon is there to stop you from getting the key of the ancients.
the characters are developed they had pesonalities and you knew enough about their pasts to understand thier motives and personalities. any more anlaysis would be overdoing it cuz theres nothing more anyone wants to know avout the main characters in fact the only one whos past you dont fully know is cait sith but you know enough about him to understand his motives and if i remeber correctly isnt cait sith one of the turks. and the other character you want to know about arent main characters and arent in the story enough to even bother telling more about them you know all you need to know about those characters to understand the story and thier motives you cant explain everyones tale just those who are in the story a lot and the people reading/watching/playing the story care most about. for example in "to kill a mockingbird" are the ewells expalined in as much depth as the finches NO are the cunninghams explained in as much depth as the finches NO and is the book frowned upon for poor character development becuase they didnt tell enough about the nonimportant characters NO infact it is praised for its character development becuase you know enough about the main characters and their personality who are the ones you care about most in the story. and in ff7 this is the same you know enough about the main characters, the ones you care about most, and thier personalities to know what they are like and what they would do in certain situations.
and finally putting emotion into ones argument is not a bad thing it is a good thing. it means they are more deeply involved in thier beliefs and can sway a crowd more easily becuase they seem more human and can reach the audiances emotions more easily. while those who are less emotional seem more inhuman to an audiance and causes them to dislike that person more than the emotional one.
this can obviously be seen in many speeches where the a crwod is swayed more towards the emotional one than the less emotional one becuase he seems more human and can reach them better.
you do realize that you’ve been saying the same thing over and over and over pretty much…right?
oh and Kemtach2999 thank you for your support.
ok prak now your just saying im wrong for the sake of saying im wrong and becuase you dont want to accept that my points and any other fans are just as convincing as yours and notice how im saying ponts NOT facts becuase all of these are opinions and points were making on those opinions there are NO facts in this argue meant it is all opinionated.
And ive said it once and ill say it agian any game can be made hard depending on how you play it. for example some people who play mario 3 find it extremely hard and trust me i know cuz my cousins and my friends are some of them while some people find it extremely easy becuase they know secrets and techniques that make it easy for them. the same is true about ff7. if you dont know a pheonix down will 1 hit kill an undead enemy than undead enemies and bosses may be hard for you, if you dont know about certain spells summons and techniques then some boss battles may be extremely hard for you example: emerald weapon can be extremely hard even if you have KOTR and omnislash and ultimate weapons becuase its attacks can kill even lvl 99 characters in one hit. now if youtyr kotr and limit breaks and all those things it can still be hard, but if all your characters can mime than this battle is extremely easy becuase you can just have one person summon KOTR and have everyone else mime it and in no time emerald weapon will fall. so see it all depends on how the player plays it that determine if a game is easy or not.
The only possible explanation for who killed aeris is that it was Jenova. this is becuase sephiroth is cacooned in the crater and jenova can take any form it pleases. so to make sure holy wasnt summoned and sephiroth could be awakened jenova killed aeris to stop holy while taking the form of sephiroth so it would lure cloud and the others to the crater. so it couldnt possibly be the real sephiroth that killed aeris becuase it is physically impossible for a person to be two places at once. the real sephiroth doesnt come into the picture until after cloud awakens him with the balck materia.
like i said all this is in the game you just have to look for it and piece it together.
I’d have to say that The Lady, and the Tiger makes the perfect counter-argument. It gives you enough information that you can draw your own conclusion leaving you with a meaningful experience of what you feel at the end.
Final Fantasy VII is just like this. The whole entire game is centered around life or Mako, and death, Midgar. You could even consider these the two doors that the man were forced to chose from. The game builds and builds on this giving you information to help you make your final decision. So finally the ending comes, and it leaves you hanging. To whether or not the earth chose Life or Death and it is up for you to decide…. but wait…. they leave a little special clip at the end… the scene with Nanaki that can help sway your decision. In all honestly, Final Fantasy VII’s ending was brilliant. And to say that The Lady and the Tiger and Final Fantasy VII are nothing alike is just a horrible comparison. Clearly, two doors are in both, and only one can be chosen. These both have great impacts on your opinion of the world. I don’t know how you can say Final Fantasy VII has no meaning…. When it carries a similar message of Life and Death as The Lady and the Tiger. Yet you say The Lady, and the Tiger was meaningful…. it just doesn’t make sense to me how things that are so similar can be perceived by you as entirely different. I just cannot fathom it, I’m sorry. There are moral issues I haven’t even covered here that are centered around this Life and Death theme, that all add to the story and I would be glad to share them with you.
and the plot developments i mentioned do change the characters course, if they didnt learn about holy then they’d have no idea what the hell to do in the meteor, and the weapons maybe dont change their paths but didnt you notice they only attacked when someone was trying to stop meteor? the frist weapon attacked the mako cannon b/c it saw it as a threat to destroy meteor, diamond attacked when the makko cannon was fired at the crater, ultima weapon attacked mideel becuase cloud was there and it knew cloud was a threat to the crater and later returned for an attack after the rocket was fired at meteor and emerald weapon is there to stop you from getting the key of the ancients.
the characters are developed they had pesonalities and you knew enough about their pasts to understand thier motives and personalities. any more anlaysis would be overdoing it cuz theres nothing more anyone wants to know avout the main characters in fact the only one whos past you dont fully know is cait sith but you know enough about him to understand his motives and if i remeber correctly isnt cait sith one of the turks. and the other character you want to know about arent main characters and arent in the story enough to even bother telling more about them you know all you need to know about those characters to understand the story and thier motives you cant explain everyones tale just those who are in the story a lot and the people reading/watching/playing the story care most about. for example in "to kill a mockingbird" are the ewells expalined in as much depth as the finches NO are the cunninghams explained in as much depth as the finches NO and is the book frowned upon for poor character development becuase they didnt tell enough about the nonimportant characters NO infact it is praised for its character development becuase you know enough about the main characters and their personality who are the ones you care about most in the story. and in ff7 this is the same you know enough about the main characters, the ones you care about most, and thier personalities to know what they are like and what they would do in certain situations.
and finally putting emotion into ones argument is not a bad thing it is a good thing. it means they are more deeply involved in thier beliefs and can sway a crowd more easily becuase they seem more human and can reach the audiances emotions more easily. while those who are less emotional seem more inhuman to an audiance and causes them to dislike that person more than the emotional one.
this can obviously be seen in many speeches where the a crwod is swayed more towards the emotional one than the less emotional one becuase he seems more human and can reach them better.
this can obviously be seen in many speeches where the a crwod is swayed more towards the emotional one than the less emotional one becuase he seems more human and can reach them better.
yea, being emotional can also cause you to NOT see something negative. whether its ur favorite sports team, tv show, yourself, g/f, your awlays less inclined to see their faults because of your emotional attachment to these things. and Pracks "inhuman" arguments have swayed way more VII fanboys than these "emotional" arguments have swayed VII haters.
infact omnislash you seem very biased towards the haters side and it seems to me it’s becuase you dont want to displease the "high and mighty" prak.
Looks like I’m going to get involved with this again.
Uh, what in the world are you talking about? You are contradicting yourself by what you just said. The game is very easy <B>without</B> getting to level 99, or getting KOTR, or the ultimate weapons, or the limit breaks, or mastering materia. The game is incredibly easy, because you are never stuck in one place for more than 10 minutes, because you aren’t strong enough to advance to the next part of the game. The game is incredibly easy because you can finish it with pretty basic weaponry, and average HP. The game is incredibly easy because you never have to solve difficult puzzles or slay ridiculously difficult bosses.
And you say once Aeris died the characters and you know exactly whats coming next. Heres what i say to that are you and the characters psychic NO. all they know at this point is Sephioth=Bad We=Good so lets go kill him they know nothing else. they and you the player know nothing of the weapons the crater and cloud going loopy and getting lost in the lifestream god you dont even know about holy and that the white orb aeris dropped was the white materia. there is still pleanty to figure out at this point.
One thing I’m trying to figure out is what you are trying to say here. It would be really nice if you put a little more effort into structuring your sentences and making them readable to the audience here.
Honestly, I don’t remember ever saying that the characters know exactly what is coming next after Aeris is killed. I’m not calling you a liar, but if you can point me to the spot in one of my posts that says that, then I’ll counter it.
And when you complain about not being able to physically attack with a limit break this is just the game being hard and challenging and telling you to be creative there are pleanty of other things to do besides physically attack and use magic. theres deathblow, manipulate, god u can just not use that character or RUN AWAY FOR GODS SAKE!!
But do you not understand? Physical attacks are what your characters use <B>most</B> of the time to win battles! And if you take that aspect away when you reach a Limit Break, it’s udderly ridiculous. There are plenty of things to do other than physical attacks and magic? Oh really, then how come you only named two? Manipulate is flawed because it’s only good if the enemy uses a nice attack or something like that. And Deathblow doesn’t even work all the time, so you may fail with it and have to wait a whole second turn to try and finish off the enemies; and by that time, they may have already killed you. Don’t even use the "RUN AWAY" routine either. Even if you choose to run away when you get a Limit Break, it’s still going to be there in the next battle, and every battle you fight from then on until you get rid of it.
The ending isnt that bad becuz the game has given you enough information for you to come up with your own theories. and when it shows midgar 500 years later it is showing you that the wound of the planet has healed. look at it this way holy originally is helping meteor becuase the planet is like midgar is my wound and the humans that infest it are the cuase for the wound so i will destroy the cuase so it will never happen again then aeris who is in the lifestream is like wait these are my friends yes they can be bad but give them a chance so she calls upon the lifestream to destroy meteor and save the human race then 500 years later it shows you the wound is healed and the human race has learned its lesson and is not sucking the planets life away anymore. see what a little thought can do.
No, sorry. The ending doesn’t automatically tell the player that "MIDGAR IS HEALING". All it shows is a grassy wasteland, nothing more. Oh yeah, and a few cats.
The ending is bad because it is supposed to leave you with something more; not just show you that the grass needs to be cut.
And by no means does the ending suggest that ‘Humans have learned their lesson’. Where you came up with that one is beyond me.
And when you say they didnt have enough info on the nonimportant characters all i have to say is you cant tell everyones story at once and if they did it would be too much at once. they give you enough info to make theories and for you to understand things.
It seems to be a theme with you and FFVII; theories. I don’t give a rat’s ass about thinking up theories with my characters. I would rather want to know their stories than have to sit there and think about where they came from and what their true motives is. Yes, the game gave a little bit of information regarding the characters in general, but not nearly enough.
When you complain about how materia takes away from you hp well master it and it wont but like i said you dont have to if you want a challenge. But that is part of beating the game becuase i see beating a game as completing everything possible. Materia is part of the challenge of the game you’re just trying to take it away. if you take away the hp reduction but still have the spells and such then materia is just a powerful weapon the double sided sword is a good thing becuase you are sacrificing your life to use materia which makes it challenging if you took away the hp reduction then your just making the game easier which you obviosly hate.
Sorry, but it’s not a challenge to master materia. It’s just a long, boring process of leveling up for hours and hours and hours. That is no challenge, but rather a funeral. And anyways, by the time you master materia, it really doesn’t matter anymore. If you set out to master materia only to save your HP, then you honestly just threw away some of your life.
Wow, I sure missed doing this.
and secondly you need to learn to understand what you read becuz u missed all of my points completely.
for one i never contradicted myself becuz i did not say it was easy if you used poor weps, low level magic and pathetic summons on low level characters and said it was harder an example is try beating emerald weapon with the buster sword lowel level magic pathetic summons and low level characters and you’ll discover that it is extremely hard and is almost impossible. maybe you should read all of a statement instead of the first sentence before writing a counter statement.
another point you missed becuase of poor reading skills is that i didnt say mastering materia was hard. i said that materia was part of the challenge of the game becuase it reduces your stats to use it therefore you are making a sacrifice of life to use powerful attacks if you would take this away then u just have another powerful weapon.
on the ending you missed my point again becuase of poor reading skills i didnt say that that was the only thing that could’ve happened i was trying to prove that the ending is like that for you to decide what happens on your own and that you can come up with pretty good and accurate theories on your own if you just thing about it.
with the limit breaks you missed the point again becuase of poor reading skills becuase what i was saying was there are other things to do and the game is telling you to do something else if you dont want to limit break, its just another challenge. and i only listed two cuz ive got complaints for writing too much but if you want them all well here you go mug, enemy skill, throw, manipulate, deathblow, morph, items, mime, counter attack, summon, and all the magics. the game is just telling you to get creative and do something else and you know what you say theres no challenge well this sounds like you consider this a big challenge and when i said run away that was when you said "if your right before a boss u have to use it" well i u run away u can use it in the boss battle thats right around the corner.
and when you say you dont remember saying the characters and you know eveything after aeris’ death all i have to say is this is a thing called loss of memory because this is exactly what you said word for word "The Importance of Aeris’ Death
When Aeris sacrificed herself, she didn’t know if her companions would even make it out of the area alive. She knew that Sephiroth was powerful and was unquestionably going to be there to try and stop them all. So, her sacrifice didn’t guarantee the party’s safety at all. Yes, her death was important for the storyline, but she was going to die regardless of whether or not Sephiroth did her in first.
When Aeris died, the whole story was pretty much laid out, and the party knew of the exact dangers that lie ahead of them."
so what i said did counter your point and it made perfect sense you just have as ive said before a problem understanding what you read.
infact omnislash you seem very biased towards the haters side and it seems to me it’s becuase you dont want to displease the "high and mighty" prak.
yea, but most of them that do participate usually do nothing more than make asses of themselves.
I’m only biased to you cause i’m not on your side here. Look at my sn. I actually liked the game, and thought it was a good game. as far as prak goes, he can be a bit of a prick sometimes, but when your right 90% of the time, it doesn’t really matter. I’m not trying to please anyone, I just used to like the game a whole lot, then i saw how pathetic the fanboys arguments were compared to prak’s, and was able to take a step back and take an unbiased look and see that him and smokey’s arguments far outweigh any fanboy arguments i’ve seen yet. I"m not biased at all, I just look at both sides and see a clear cut winner
you dont shatter anything. Prak and smokey shatter 95% of the things said by fanboys. nobody here has every stopped anyone from liking the game, but when most fanboys here are like "OMG FFVII IS THE BEST GAME OF ALL TIME" when it has been cleary proven to be nothing more than mediocre, thats when the likes of prak and smokey step in and dissect it to show the many faults of the game
infact omnislash you seem very biased towards the haters side and it seems to me it’s becuase you dont want to displease the "high and mighty" prak.
Thanks for the laugh; I really needed it. "High and mighty?" Prak’s just having fun taking you to school. And you want proof? Take me. Before I read the posts in these threads, I thought FF7 was the best of the series. Now I see that it clearly isn’t. Your main problem is that you communicate your points so badly because you keep repeating that you don’t understand Prak’s logic, so what little factual support you do have is very difficult to find, and people shouldn’t have to decipher your arguments to understand what you’re trying to say.
I ran out of popcorn. Anyone willing to share?
when did i say i didnt understand praks logic. and the last 5 or 6 posts ive made my points are very clear and the examples backing them up are easy to find and they are quite convincing you guys just dont want to accept the fact that a fanboy could possibly make just as convincing points as you .and there is no factual support for any of everybodys arguments becuase there are no facts in this debate, it is all opinions with supporting evidence from the game backing them up.
ok prak now your just saying im wrong for the sake of saying im wrong and becuase you dont want to accept that my points and any other fans are just as convincing as yours and notice how im saying ponts NOT facts becuase all of these are opinions and points were making on those opinions there are NO facts in this argue meant it is all opinionated.
Get a grip. If the best defense you can come up with is "It’s just your opinion," then it’s not worth my time to do this with you.
And ive said it once and ill say it agian any game can be made hard depending on how you play it. for example some people who play mario 3 find it extremely hard and trust me i know cuz my cousins and my friends are some of them while some people find it extremely easy becuase they know secrets and techniques that make it easy for them. the same is true about ff7. if you dont know a pheonix down will 1 hit kill an undead enemy than undead enemies and bosses may be hard for you, if you dont know about certain spells summons and techniques then some boss battles may be extremely hard for you example: emerald weapon can be extremely hard even if you have KOTR and omnislash and ultimate weapons becuase its attacks can kill even lvl 99 characters in one hit. now if youtyr kotr and limit breaks and all those things it can still be hard, but if all your characters can mime than this battle is extremely easy becuase you can just have one person summon KOTR and have everyone else mime it and in no time emerald weapon will fall. so see it all depends on how the player plays it that determine if a game is easy or not.
And how hard is it to figure out all that. All you’re saying is that it’s challenging to people who are too stupid/lazy to figure out the game’s mechanics, but when you apply a little sense to the way you play, it truly is astoundingly simple. I, for one, am not a moron, so I found the game easy and I am not going to play like an idiot just to get a challenge.
The only possible explanation for who killed aeris is that it was Jenova. this is becuase sephiroth is cacooned in the crater and jenova can take any form it pleases. so to make sure holy wasnt summoned and sephiroth could be awakened jenova killed aeris to stop holy while taking the form of sephiroth so it would lure cloud and the others to the crater. so it couldnt possibly be the real sephiroth that killed aeris becuase it is physically impossible for a person to be two places at once. the real sephiroth doesnt come into the picture until after cloud awakens him with the balck materia.
like i said all this is in the game you just have to look for it and piece it together.
Thoeries theories theories… You just can’t deal in facts, can you?
I’d have to say that The Lady, and the Tiger makes the perfect counter-argument. It gives you enough information that you can draw your own conclusion leaving you with a meaningful experience of what you feel at the end.
As I said, it was intended to be that way. It was made that way for a reason and provided a perfectly satisfying conclusion. FFVII is not a particularly thought-provoking story, so it should have had a decent ending.
Final Fantasy VII is just like this. The whole entire game is centered around life or Mako, and death, Midgar. You could even consider these the two doors that the man were forced to chose from. The game builds and builds on this giving you information to help you make your final decision. So finally the ending comes, and it leaves you hanging. To whether or not the earth chose Life or Death and it is up for you to decide…. but wait…. they leave a little special clip at the end… the scene with Nanaki that can help sway your decision. In all honestly, Final Fantasy VII’s ending was brilliant. And to say that The Lady and the Tiger and Final Fantasy VII are nothing alike is just a horrible comparison. Clearly, two doors are in both, and only one can be chosen. These both have great impacts on your opinion of the world.
I’ll admit that you did a good job of tying FFVII to The Lady and the Tiger. However, the difference is that FFVII was intended as entertainment, whereas the other was a fable, intended to teach a lesson. Since there was no lesson to be learned from the ending of FFVII, there was no justification for an incomplete ending of the sort you describe.
And on top of that, the final scene with Nanaki clearly shows that the planet got along just fine, along with the life on it. Therefore, the choice you say exists really doesn’t exist at all. It just left out the important bits inbetween.
and the plot developments i mentioned do change the characters course, if they didnt learn about holy then they’d have no idea what the hell to do in the meteor, and the weapons maybe dont change their paths but didnt you notice they only attacked when someone was trying to stop meteor?
None of that affects the player’s outlook on the game’s events. Through it all, the objectives and reasons for them remain the same.
emerald weapon is there to stop you from getting the key of the ancients.
How can you possibly know that? More speculation.
the characters are developed they had pesonalities and you knew enough about their pasts to understand thier motives and personalities. any more anlaysis would be overdoing it cuz theres nothing more anyone wants to know avout the main characters
How do you know? Do you speak for everyone? And I already clearly described the lack of personalities, so I’m not going to bother doing it again.
in fact the only one whos past you dont fully know is cait sith but you know enough about him to understand his motives and if i remeber correctly isnt cait sith one of the turks.
Going a bit off topic here, but… Nope. Not a turk.
and the other character you want to know about arent main characters and arent in the story enough to even bother telling more about them you know all you need to know about those characters to understand the story and thier motives you cant explain everyones tale just those who are in the story a lot and the people reading/watching/playing the story care most about.
I’m getting really sick of trying to figure out where to cut off your damn run-on sentences. Punctuation please.
Anyway, character development is good. Their backstories could easily be made optional, so players who don’t care wouldn’t have to see it.
for example in "to kill a mockingbird" are the ewells expalined in as much depth as the finches NO are the cunninghams explained in as much depth as the finches NO and is the book frowned upon for poor character development becuase they didnt tell enough about the nonimportant characters NO infact it is praised for its character development becuase you know enough about the main characters and their personality who are the ones you care about most in the story.
A book is not the same as a game. A game can have a much longer story with much greater depth.
and in ff7 this is the same you know enough about the main characters, the ones you care about most, and thier personalities to know what they are like and what they would do in certain situations.
I disagree, for reasons previously stated.
and finally putting emotion into ones argument is not a bad thing it is a good thing. it means they are more deeply involved in thier beliefs and can sway a crowd more easily becuase they seem more human and can reach the audiances emotions more easily. while those who are less emotional seem more inhuman to an audiance and causes them to dislike that person more than the emotional one.
this can obviously be seen in many speeches where the a crwod is swayed more towards the emotional one than the less emotional one becuase he seems more human and can reach them better.
Speeches and debates are completely different. You want to get a crowd fired up during a speech, but you want them to think clearly during a debate. Getting carried away just makes you look childish under those conditions.
another point you missed becuase of poor reading skills is that i didnt say mastering materia was hard.
Smokey most likely missed something or misunderstood you because of your own poor writing skills. It’s painful to read the things you write because of run-on sentences, lack of punctuation, and a lot of needless garbage that just takes up space rather than making a point.
regarding emerald weapon. emerald and ruby were just thrown into the American version as optional bosses for an extra challenge (which actually wasn’t that challenging), they weren’t in the original version, and have absolutely no relevance to anything at all
And Ill post here what I wrote there.
—————-
I talk to you all who don???t like FFVII: you are wrong, from the start of your posts you are simply wrong.
Cause you list all the points wich make FFVII a not-good game according to you.
You say the materia system is too easy, the storyline is simple, one thing is???, one other is???
Here the matter is not if your statements are true or not, if they are shared or not.
The matter is that you ask to a FFVII player WHY he/she likes that game.
Well, that is an HUGE wrong: no one can explain WHY he/she likes a thing.
That player would have say: ???Yeah, I like it for its gameplay, for its materia system, bla bla bla???
And you reply: ???But gameplay sucks, materia system is too easy to play, story is too easy bla bla bla??????
Great, IT DOESN???T MATTER AT ALL if gameplay or story sucks or if there is not character peculiarity.
BECAUSE THAT PLAYER LOVES THAT GAME, AND YOU CAN’T ASK HIM/HER WHY.
Rabid Monkey had to create his post: ???FFVII – Why it ISNT a good game FOR ME???
Bye
——————–
And Ill post here what I wrote there.
—————-
I talk to you all who don???t like FFVII: you are wrong, from the start of your posts you are simply wrong.
Cause you list all the points wich make FFVII a not-good game according to you.
You say the materia system is too easy, the storyline is simple, one thing is???, one other is???
Here the matter is not if your statements are true or not, if they are shared or not.
The matter is that you ask to a FFVII player WHY he/she likes that game.
Well, that is an HUGE wrong: no one can explain WHY he/she likes a thing.
That player would have say: ???Yeah, I like it for its gameplay, for its materia system, bla bla bla???
And you reply: ???But gameplay sucks, materia system is too easy to play, story is too easy bla bla bla??????
Great, IT DOESN???T MATTER AT ALL if gameplay or story sucks or if there is not character peculiarity.
BECAUSE THAT PLAYER LOVES THAT GAME, AND YOU CAN’T ASK HIM/HER WHY.
Rabid Monkey had to create his post: ???FFVII – Why it ISNT a good game FOR ME???
Bye
——————–
I doubt anyone will take u seriously even if they can understand what you wrote, its not exactly the best grammer around. a not-good game?
Did you even read the beginning posts of the other thread? You have yet to say something half as valid as what Rabid Monkey and Smokey said there. If you haven’t, don’t post any more until you have.
It seems you guys are missing the entire point of a debate. When one debates he/she does not just throw out random arguments to support a point that will supposedly ???counter??? the opponent. One does not scream slander at the opponent. Why? This does nothing (I???m still confused why Bush won presidency). To slander your opponent is just ridiculing yourself, deflating your argument and any value the observers have for you. The point of a debate is to reach a common ground. Make concessions on each of your parts. For example in the United Nations when people wish to obtain help they don???t continually debate about what should be done. That would be silly, because they would be debating and nothing would get done. So they come to a compromise that would benefit as many of the countries involved as possible. I???m not saying that Trekkie has to say that the game is bad and Prak doesn???t have to say the game is good, but I???m sure you can both agree that there are strong and weak points in the game. Debate about points in the game that are strong or weak and why they are that way. (No, stating an opinion isn???t a reason.) Reach a common ground where both parties feel they have received just rewards. Do not continually spout out arguments trying to convince the other person that ???your way??? is the ???right way.??? Because most of the time it doesn???t work and people just retain their position.
So, I would suggest you guys reach some kind of compromise. I don???t care what you come up with, but do not continually bash each other over some game, it isn???t worth it. Concede on certain parts of the game. I???m sure there is something good about it that Prak can commend and I???m sure there are things that piss Trekkie off. I know other people are getting tired of these posts and it seems you???ve even managed to drive chorns off. It seems that it is time to end this debate, and if you can???t even seem to agree to a simple compromise, you might as well agree to disagree. Bashing each other???s arguments constantly will not accomplish anything. Flame me or not, this is how I feel
(So this post actually has some pertinence to the thread. Whether Final Fantasy VII is good or not is up to the person playing it. I refuse to admit the game is the best or the worst, but it does have high points and low points.)
I don’t want to get drawn into this, but no matter what the form of debate you use, be it political or for fun, there must be some structure. Otherwise, people will just be screaming mindless junk. Without structure the end only comes about when one person finally gets fed up and leaves, like chorns did. It just tests the stubbornness of people. This is no way, even for fun to debate. Yes, I agree you must have your side seem stronger, but most of the time with just a stronger argument you aren’t going to get anywhere. Trekkie, having very few strong points, outlasted chorns in stubborness and he continues to struggle against Prak with his weak arguments. Obviously, Prak is a stronger debater and therefore he’ll have a stronger more convincing argument. I can’t say for sure, but it seems that Trekkie is really stubborn. He won’t conform to written English and some ideals of others. I do agree that debates for fun are far from political debates but no matter the form you need some structure. I’m not saying you have to compromise (it is merely my suggestion), you can always agree to disagree, which is fine.
And that’s exactly why threads like this onealways end up in some sort of war.
The stout FF7 fans simply say: "That’s YOUR opinion, so shut up, I like the game but I am NOT telling YOU why!"
Isn’t it possible to just talk – in a friendly way – about WHY you like the game, and maybe admit that yes, some parts are a bit dumb, and it’s understandable that people who don’t like this, or who prefer that, don’t like FF7 too much.
If all you’re going to yell is that "all you FF7 haters" should get out of this forum and leave the fans to their praising of the game.
Instead, tolerate that maybe there are people who actually want to talk about why they think FF7 isn’t a very good game, and there is no other place to do this than the FF7 forum.
So if you are really unwilling to defend your opinion and explain WHY you think FF7 is good, and at the same time want to complain that people don’t share your opinion and DARE share it, then do not post in here. 🙁
There ya go, the wise words of Tokiko.
I???m still going to have to disagree with you on this. You???ve offered no real reason as to why you believe this… you???ve just merely stated that the developers had to make it hard…. and apparently you are making us.. The gamers… look incompetent because we can???t change the difficulty of the game.
Now I???m going to agree with you to a point that the developers should make a game challenging. UP to a point. For example, the developers can make a hard level and an easy level. Just because you play the game on easy doesn???t make the game easy, it just means that you haven???t chosen to switch to the hard mode. You can use this as an example to Final Fantasy VII. Getting massive levels, ultimate weapons, and ultimate materia is the game on easy mode. You???ve just haven???t switched to hard mode. Just because the developers haven???t created a ???hard??? option doesn???t mean the gamer is incompetent to make the game challenging for himself. Therefore… I???m going to disagree with you… that it isn???t entirely the developer???s job to create a hard game, but it is also the gamer???s job… to make it challenging for themselves.
2: The plot developments you mentioned are minor because they do not change the player’s outlook on the game. Sephiroth and Shinra are still bad. Mako is still good, as is anyone trying to preserve it. You merely look at the other stuff and think, "Obstacle on the path. Must defeat."
Now that was just total crap. Significant plot events don???t have to affect your opinion of a character or an ideal. Look at Harry Potter, when we learned about Tom Riddle being Voldemort… did we still hate him… yes….. and did that change how much we hated him…. yes… and did it have significance to the story… yes! A major plot event doesn???t have to change how the reader feels about the character at all. It should re-enforce what is already known and make the opinion strong though. Such as in the example, Tom Riddle made us hate Voldemort even more.
This is the same way with Final Fantasy VII. The WEAPONS were not a ???major??? plot event, but it certainly was significant enough that influenced the goals and the actions of the heros. The WEAPONS didn???t just make you destroy them… but you chose to destroy the weapons in order to save your hometown. As you said ShinRa is bad… ok…. so if WEAPONS are going to destroy Midgar, which is killing the planet, (and thus destroying MAKO which is good) then why not let the WEAPONS destroy it? Obviously, it isn???t just a simple decision to destroy it… because it would be a great benefit to the team if they didn???t have to defeat ShinRa and can focus on Sephiroth. We all know why they decided to destroy the WEAPONS, but they weren???t just obstacles in the path…. they forced the team to make decisions about how to proceed. If they were just obstacles in the path then they would just roll right over them without much hesitation and I believe that is where your argument is weak.
As for Holy not being a major plot development, I???d have to say you???re completely befuddled. Holy changed the team???s view of what must be done. Before it was just ???We want revenge for Aeris so we are going to kill Sephiroth??? but after they learned of Holy from Nanaki???s father… then they now have a more significant reason to destroy Sephiroth so they can save the planet. Even at the end, Holy comes up again with another plot twist. Instead of helping to destroy the Meteor, it is helping the Meteor destroy Midgar. This totally upset everything that the team believes and it clearly had a great importance to what happened. If that isn???t a major plot occurrence then all my years of English has been for nothing.
3: I have previously stated that Battle Square was the only worthwhile minigame. The others are garbage because they offer no decent rewards for the time you invest in them. If I wanted a change of pace from the rest of the game, I’d just put in another game that would be more fun than the minigames.
While the Battle Square may have been the most quick and beneficial to some players, and in some eyes the best, it isn???t the only minigame of substance. Fort Condor???s minigame was impressive. It had the feel of a Real Time Strategy game built right into Final Fantasy VII. Now, I don???t know how much you like RTS, and honestly I don???t care, but the system in Fort Condor was adequate enough to bring some enjoyment into the game. The only thing I found terribly horrible was the fact that it limited your number of troops, but when you compare it to real life… even if you have an infinite about of money… there is still the constriction of your population.. You can???t recruit more people than you have. This makes sense… so I really can???t complain about it. The reward for the Fort Condor battles aren???t spectacular, but I can???t say that they aren???t worth it.
Honestly, the basis for the other games in the Golden Saucer were there just so you could obtain GP to use in the Battle Square. I feel square really wanted to emphasis this portion of the game, and in this they decide that in reward for playing the other minigames you get the GP to use for the Battle Square. In all honesty, there is nothing wrong with the bike game, or the snowboarding game. Even the submarine game has it points, but these are basically all emphasizing the main thing… the Battle Square. The rewards for these games are basically the GP which you use in the Battle Square to get even better prizes. You can also obtain the EXP materia to gain more EXP, and the Gil Materia that will help you obtain more Gil after battles from the battle square…. more money and quicker leveling up time if needed are great ways.
The minigames in Final Fantasy VII weren???t as terrible as you make them out to be… they were decent at the least. They had adequate prizes for the time invested in them and it makes sense that they deserve more credit than what you give them.
4. However, the difference is that FFVII was intended as entertainment, whereas the other was a fable, intended to teach a lesson. Since there was no lesson to be learned from the ending of FFVII, there was no justification for an incomplete ending of the sort you describe.
Hmmm. Correct me if I’m interperting you wrong, but it seems like you say that lessons cannot be taught by entertainment means. Why you say this, it escapes me, especially since most of our lessons were taught by entertainment. Look back in the Elizabethan times with Shakespeare, a master play-rafter (He stole stories, but he still wrote masterful plays). People went to the theater to receive entertainment, but at the end of many of his plays it left the observer with a valuable lesson. Look at other games such as Xenogears. I shall not say what the ending was (for fear of spoilers)… but if you’ve played it then you know that the ending conveys a powerful meaning. Isn’t Xenogears something of entertainment? Look at a plethora of other games. Woven within their intricate storytelling, these games of entertainment displays powerful meanings. If these games can hold powerful meaning why not FF VII? As for the lessons learned from the game, they are all intertwined with the themes, of Life, Death, and the choices we make in our life.
The Final scene does give us a glamour of hope or despair depending on how you look at it. It does help you to realize what choice is made. The scene can be thought of the way you think of it, as hope for the planet and life once again reigns supreme. But if you take a deeper look you see that Midgar being overrun could be the end of the human race. Why haven’t the humans tended to one of their beloved creations. This could be taken that the human race no longer exist. The ending of Final Fantasy is interpretation… just like the Lady, and the Tiger. All the information is there… the choice is just up to the player to decide.
5: You pointed out the individual stories for all the characters, but what you failed to make mention of was that they had nothing else. One quick side (or small segment of the main path) trip told all that the game had to offer. Their limited development was forced on you all at once. After that, their tales faded into the background, leaving too many unanswered questions.
*sigh* I would have to say that just doesn???t make sense. None of the character???s plots were FORCED on you, they were all woven into the story. Lets take Barret as an example… his story started with the town of Corel, which the group has to pass through in order to make it to the Gold Saucer. That isn???t forced on you because it just part of the story. Then comes when you are thrown in prison of the Gold Saucer. You are merely thrown in for a crime that you didn???t commit.. Nothing forced about that. To get out.. You have to talk to a man to get permission to leave. Again this is all part of the plot so nothing is forced. So then you realize it is Dyne, and since Dyne is there you can sort out the issues… It makes perfect sense doesn???t it. But wait, that isn???t all. He returns to North Correl and he saves the town from disaster by stopping the train. Again not forced because you were after the Huge Materia anyway. So now he has saved his town and he is now no longer viewed as a terrible man. As for the Characters having their story all at once, I do agree that some of the characters were solved in one or two points, but I would ask what else is necessary? After Barret has resolved his issues with Dyne, and he becomes a hero with the town… what else is there. There is no other plot points for Barret that must be addressed. Why he fights, who he fights for, and what his past contains is already addressed. All questions answered. Brining up more plot points would just be creating more questions that shouldn???t have to be created or just beating the character???s development to death. Hmm I doubt their tales fade into the background. I do agree that they don???t bring back these events often… but it does come up. Everyone at the end of the game before entering the crater must find something to fight for. Their background stories are a true benefit there because you are finally able to comprehend why they are fighting. I understand how you would like everyone to be addressed at all the time… but… simply put… when you have nine or so characters, you cannot possibly address them all in one plot line. I???d be glad to address the other characters when I have time..
6: Your analysis of the Jenova/Sephiroth relationship is, I say again, based largely on speculation and interpretation. There is no factual evidence that clearly defines what happened, no matter how deep you dig.
How it is speculation when the game has clearly defined these points for you:
1. Sephiroph???s physical body is embedded in the crater the entire game… this is made clear.. I believe the game even shouts it in your face… forgive but I forget the scene.. It is most possibly when Cloud hands over the black materia.
2. Since part 1 is proven, then clearly Sephiroph cannot have possibly killed Aerith… and then you must conclude it is some other form. What form is the big question. I dunno if my memory is messed up or I???ve been having weird fantasies, but I do recall from the game I time when we realize that the Sephiroph we???re trailing but a clone. A clone made from Jenova.
Therefore it is not complete speculation that I have come to this conclusion and it is based mostly on facts that I feel confident enough to say this.
Now I have a question for you Prak…. are you a robot? (I only bring this up because you seem so emotionless to me. You rarely show any signs of emotion on the forums… maybe I just haven???t read enough of what you say… but I???m sorry to say, but to me you seem like a robot.)
Omnislash… as for personal insults I think Prak has also done his share… if you are going to discipline someone for something then don???t beat up on one person because they have conflicting views than you… treat everyone the same… and give Prak a fair share too… or you could just discipline no one.
And Chorns I hate to say this but your first post
???sorry but our points were much more convincing than yours, especially because ours’ did not sound like fanboys’ going on about how great a game is.???
was worse than ours. It merely states what you believe. I dunno about you… but I have pulled examples to support my facts, and related Final Fantasy VII to real life examples. I don???t think I???ve gone on ???about how great a game [it] is???, I???ve been supporting my views.
And your second post
???Your strong points should emphasize themselves, FFVII is super ultra easy if you get all the characters up to level 99!! In fact any Final Fantasy that uses the same leveling up system that FFVII does will be easy at level 99!! What we are saying is that FFVII can be easy to beat at level 50 or 60!! Hell, first time I ever played through the game I beat it with Cloud at level 43 without the Ultima Weapon and it was still pretty damn easy!! Don’t think it isn’t cause you would be wrong!! I know that for a fact!! When we are less emotional I think we can sort out fact from opinion better.???
Yes I agree, strong points should emphasize themselves. If a game is defined by how easy it is to defeat at the final Boss then almost any game can be easy. I personally beat VII when I was around that level, and I found it to be easy. I may have used The End to defeat the Omega Weapon and then used hero drinks to become invincible to defeat the final boss, but I still beat it at a low level (being around 40-50) and it wasn???t difficult at all and I???d assume it would be extremely easy using the same strategy at level 99. Believe me… I know this for a FACT! I doubt the final level you are at wen you beat the game has any very little relevance to how difficult the game is. As for emotion… it is a wonderful tool that the TV market uses to seduce their viewers. Look at the commercials where they ask for money for the starving children to sponsor them. I???m not saying they are bad and I???m not trying to undermine them, honestly I think they are a brilliant use of propaganda, but they are an extremely successful program… and it all because they target the emotion of the human heart.
And finally smokey does have poor reading skills becuase 1. he only read the first sentences of what i wrote and 2. it is very easy to understand what i wrote back there. my points and the evidence behind them were very clear.
Well, English is not my mother language. I’m foreign.
Hope only that post makes sense.
In a phrase: YOU CANT ASK SOMEONE WHY HE/SHE LIKES A GAME LIKE FFVII.
There are feelings involved, not arguments. Stop.
Ah, but the supporting evidence from the game is the facts!
Well, Trekkies, your post before this one was a definite improvement over your previous ones. Instead of just telling everyone that they’re putting words in your mouth and ignoring your points and such, you actually provided some good details to support your cause. I feel inclined to help you out now.
My summary of FF7: *spoilers definitely present*
Story:
I’ll start from the beginning. One plus goes to the story for the opening sequence. It opens with a very good musical background, and the move from the overview of Midgar zooming in to the train station is nice. (Don’t worry; I won’t keep this level of detail up; I’m just describing the first impression.) The way it initially introduces the first few characters, with Barret as the leader of a group with unclear motives, and Cloud as a mysterious mercenary who has no known origin. Barret then introduces the first clue as to the plot by telling about mako energy. Regrettably, this doesn’t have any changes in it for the rest of the story. However, beginning the game, FF7 has an effective exposition.
Once Cloud tell’s his story in Kalm town, the main villain and basic plot of FF7 is revealed. This was a tragic flaw of FF7; I really think that if Square had just put some twists in the plot, such as a villain change or something more major than what was in it. But they didn’t, so FF7 gets stuck with only a pretty good plot up until the end. Aeris’s death is a somewhat powerful scene, although it is nothing compared to Chrono’s death.
As for the ending, I’m afraid I can’t think of anything good to say about it. There were just too many loose ends that they didn’t tie up. The ending brings the story down to a rating of sort of good AT BEST.
Gameplay:
I don’t have much perspective of it, but gameplay was too easy. My general RPG strategy is to level up too much, but the major dissappointment to me was that the bosses didn’t provide me anything worthy of my ultimate characters. After I got my characters to level 99 with three sets of master materia, I got this hollow feeling of a lack of accomplishment. Even the weapons were easy if you used final-attack Phoenix and started the Ruby WEAPON battle with two characters dead (I figured that one out for myself, so don’t go accusing me of using an FAQ for that.) As for the limit breaks, I didn’t mind the fact that it replaced your physical attack because you level some of them up by using them, and you don’t need them for bosses anyway. The materia system is actually a personal favorite of mine, although it does devalue your characters. However, this does enable you to select your character usage by which characters you like rather than which ones are good. I don’t think that really makes the game better, nor do I think that Square meant for the materia system to enable that, but I enjoyed it. The side quests should have been more extensive and difficult, and they should have had more of an impact on the game (i.e. getting characters back in FFVI.) Still, the side quests that were there were fairly good, and they made the game more enjoyable. So while it is by no means up to par with that of FFIV and FFVI, FFVII’s gameplay still gets a rating of fairly good from me.
Characters:
I thought characterization was the strongest part of FFVII. The way the characters were introduced was effective, such as Vincent suddenly leaping into the screen behind you and asking about Hojo. Sephiroth was a good villain, but he is often both overrated and underrated. Those who did not play all the way through FFVI do not realize how much scarier Kefka was, and that Kefka was ironically similar in philosophical beliefs to Franz Kofka (sorry if I butchered the spelling.) Still, though, Sephiroth’s uncanny power and insanity make him an effective villain, even if he IS totally eclipsed by Kefka. What Square should have done is made more side quests to tie up all the loose ends about the characters. But, again, they didn’t, so I give the characters a rating of good.
Looking at just those areas, my final rating for FFVII is "moderately good, but by no means the best of the series."
By the way, could someone please tell me how to break up the quotes? I know my points will be countered, and that knowledge would really help me out.
obviously you have never seen CSI, cause otherwise you would have known that most evidence is fact, unless it doesn’t pertain to the case.
I haven’t even seen CSI, and I knew that.
And what I was saying (just to clear things up a bit) was that there are no facts becuase all the evidence in this situation depends on the persons interpretation of it. So my evidence could work for your cause just as well as your evidence could work for my cause. Example: The Bible, people claim facts out of stories in the Bible yet someone can take the same story and contradict that person becuase they interpret the story differently. Now taking this into thought if you look at how many different interpretations of the Bible there are then a game can easily have multiple interpretations as well. Get what I mean? So they’re not really facts because they are opinions being backed up by supporting examples interpreted by the debater, from the game.
And what I was saying (just to clear things up a bit) was that there are no facts becuase all the evidence in this situation depends on the persons interpretation of it. So my evidence could work for your cause just as well as your evidence could work for my cause. Example: The Bible, people claim facts out of stories in the Bible yet someone can take the same story and contradict that person becuase they interpret the story differently. Now taking this into thought if you look at how many different interpretations of the Bible there are then a game can easily have multiple interpretations as well. Get what I mean? So they’re not really facts because they are opinions being backed up by supporting examples interpreted by the debater, from the game.
I know, and it’s the supporting examples from the game that turns our opinions into fact, I’m just saying that our supporting examples are much better.
Clearly you have not seen a debate involving Odin and rezo.
I never said the developers were supposed to make it hard, just that it isn’t a player’s responsibility to make it harder. A game is as easy or hard as the developers make it. That fact remains constant. A gamer has no obligations to the game he/she plays.
Now that was just total crap. Significant plot events don???t have to affect your opinion of a character or an ideal. Look at Harry Potter, when we learned about Tom Riddle being Voldemort… did we still hate him… yes….. and did that change how much we hated him…. yes… and did it have significance to the story… yes! A major plot event doesn???t have to change how the reader feels about the character at all. It should re-enforce what is already known and make the opinion strong though. Such as in the example, Tom Riddle made us hate Voldemort even more.
Actually, learning about riddle reveals several similarities between Harry and Voldemort that do change your outlook on them. At that point, you start realizing how deep the connection between them runs. In every HP book, there is at least one such plot twist that alters your outlook on the events of the story.
This is the same way with Final Fantasy VII. The WEAPONS were not a ???major??? plot event, but it certainly was significant enough that influenced the goals and the actions of the heros. The WEAPONS didn???t just make you destroy them… but you chose to destroy the weapons in order to save your hometown.
But as I said, the weapons didn’t change your outlook on anything. They simply alter the path you must take. Mako is still unconditionally good. Sephiroth and Shinra are still unconditionally bad. Aeris must still be avenged and the planet must be saved.
[/quote]As you said ShinRa is bad… ok…. so if WEAPONS are going to destroy Midgar, which is killing the planet, (and thus destroying MAKO which is good) then why not let the WEAPONS destroy it? Obviously, it isn???t just a simple decision to destroy it… because it would be a great benefit to the team if they didn???t have to defeat ShinRa and can focus on Sephiroth. [/quote]
But when was that conflict of interests ever described in the game? All the game ever said was, "Stop the weapon before it destroys Midgar," with no allusion at all to the conflict you describe.
We all know why they decided to destroy the WEAPONS, but they weren???t just obstacles in the path…. they forced the team to make decisions about how to proceed. If they were just obstacles in the path then they would just roll right over them without much hesitation and I believe that is where your argument is weak.
But they did just roll right over them without hesitation. The decisions you talked about were never a part of the game. Instead, Square just gave the party a stereotypical hero complex.
As for Holy not being a major plot development, I???d have to say you???re completely befuddled. Holy changed the team???s view of what must be done. Before it was just ???We want revenge for Aeris so we are going to kill Sephiroth??? but after they learned of Holy from Nanaki???s father… then they now have a more significant reason to destroy Sephiroth so they can save the planet.
Holy was nothing more than the obligatory counterpart to meteor. You knew all along that you would have to stop Sephiroth from dropping the meteor on the planet, so the existence of holy shouldn’t be a surprise or revelation to anyone, assuming they had paid attention to the story up to that point.
Even at the end, Holy comes up again with another plot twist. Instead of helping to destroy the Meteor, it is helping the Meteor destroy Midgar. This totally upset everything that the team believes and it clearly had a great importance to what happened. If that isn???t a major plot occurrence then all my years of English has been for nothing.
Pure speculation. The game never said that holy helped destroy Midgar. It’s just another theory fans have come up with over the years.
While the Battle Square may have been the most quick and beneficial to some players, and in some eyes the best, it isn???t the only minigame of substance. Fort Condor???s minigame was impressive. It had the feel of a Real Time Strategy game built right into Final Fantasy VII.
But it had no worthwhile reward. There was nothing to pay back the time you spend on it.
Now, I don???t know how much you like RTS, and honestly I don???t care, but the system in Fort Condor was adequate enough to bring some enjoyment into the game.
No matter how fun it was, it was still dead weight because the rewards weren’t an even trade for your time.
Honestly, the basis for the other games in the Golden Saucer were there just so you could obtain GP to use in the Battle Square. I feel square really wanted to emphasis this portion of the game, and in this they decide that in reward for playing the other minigames you get the GP to use for the Battle Square. In all honesty, there is nothing wrong with the bike game, or the snowboarding game. Even the submarine game has it points, but these are basically all emphasizing the main thing… the Battle Square. The rewards for these games are basically the GP which you use in the Battle Square to get even better prizes. You can also obtain the EXP materia to gain more EXP, and the Gil Materia that will help you obtain more Gil after battles from the battle square…. more money and quicker leveling up time if needed are great ways.[/quote]
So wouldn’t it have made more sense to leave out the more useless minigames and give players another way to obtain GP? As it stood, the only way you could get GP without playing the games was from the guy outside.
The minigames in Final Fantasy VII weren???t as terrible as you make them out to be… they were decent at the least. They had adequate prizes for the time invested in them and it makes sense that they deserve more credit than what you give them.
I disagree completely, for reasons stated above.
Hmmm. Correct me if I’m interperting you wrong, but it seems like you say that lessons cannot be taught by entertainment means. Why you say this, it escapes me, especially since most of our lessons were taught by entertainment. Look back in the Elizabethan times with Shakespeare, a master play-rafter (He stole stories, but he still wrote masterful plays). People went to the theater to receive entertainment, but at the end of many of his plays it left the observer with a valuable lesson. Look at other games such as Xenogears. I shall not say what the ending was (for fear of spoilers)… but if you’ve played it then you know that the ending conveys a powerful meaning. Isn’t Xenogears something of entertainment? Look at a plethora of other games. Woven within their intricate storytelling, these games of entertainment displays powerful meanings. If these games can hold powerful meaning why not FF VII? As for the lessons learned from the game, they are all intertwined with the themes, of Life, Death, and the choices we make in our life.
And what was the meaning in the end of FFVII? There’s no lesson to be learned from a clumsy cliffhanger, especially when the game skips ahead and tells you how it all turned out anyway. If nothing else, the scene with Nanaki should prove the pointlessness of it.
[quote]The Final scene does give us a glamour of hope or despair depending on how you look at it. It does help you to realize what choice is made. The scene can be thought of the way you think of it, as hope for the planet and life once again reigns supreme. But if you take a deeper look you see that Midgar being overrun could be the end of the human race. Why haven’t the humans tended to one of their beloved creations. This could be taken that the human race no longer exist. The ending of Final Fantasy is interpretation… just like the Lady, and the Tiger. All the information is there… the choice is just up to the player to decide.
Even if you happened to be right, there’s still another big difference. The Lady or the Tiger had a very clear ending with only two possible outcomes and was not intended to have the reader choose between them, but rather to reflect on the implications of both outcomes. The ending of FFVII could have any number of possible interpretations and is totally meaningless unless you dredge one up.
*sigh* I would have to say that just doesn???t make sense. None of the character???s plots were FORCED on you, they were all woven into the story.
And like I said, they only had a short moment, then faded into the background.
Lets take Barret as an example… After Barret has resolved his issues with Dyne, and he becomes a hero with the town… what else is there. There is no other plot points for Barret that must be addressed. Why he fights, who he fights for, and what his past contains is already addressed. All questions answered. Brining up more plot points would just be creating more questions that shouldn???t have to be created or just beating the character???s development to death.
As I said, more development does not have to be mandatory, but it is always nice to have it there or to have it spread more evenly throughout the game instead of having it handed to you in one big chunk.
Hmm I doubt their tales fade into the background. I do agree that they don???t bring back these events often… but it does come up. Everyone at the end of the game before entering the crater must find something to fight for.
So? They just reiterate their reasons for fighting. Nothing new is revealed.
Their background stories are a true benefit there because you are finally able to comprehend why they are fighting. I understand how you would like everyone to be addressed at all the time… but… simply put… when you have nine or so characters, you cannot possibly address them all in one plot line. I???d be glad to address the other characters when I have time..
Actually, you can quite easily include comprehensive ongoing stories for all characters in a large game. The only possible constraint would be disc space.
How it is speculation when the game has clearly defined these points for you:
1. Sephiroph???s physical body is embedded in the crater the entire game… this is made clear.. I believe the game even shouts it in your face… forgive but I forget the scene.. It is most possibly when Cloud hands over the black materia.
2. Since part 1 is proven, then clearly Sephiroph cannot have possibly killed Aerith… and then you must conclude it is some other form. What form is the big question. I dunno if my memory is messed up or I???ve been having weird fantasies, but I do recall from the game I time when we realize that the Sephiroph we???re trailing but a clone. A clone made from Jenova.
Therefore it is not complete speculation that I have come to this conclusion and it is based mostly on facts that I feel confident enough to say this.
The key words there are "based mostly on facts," which means there is interpretation present. In the face of that, you must also acknowledge that a different interpretation could significantly change the conclusion. Also, I have no recollection of any mention that the Sephiroth clones were made from Jenova.
Now I have a question for you Prak…. are you a robot? (I only bring this up because you seem so emotionless to me. You rarely show any signs of emotion on the forums… maybe I just haven???t read enough of what you say… but I???m sorry to say, but to me you seem like a robot.)
The only emotions I tend to express on the forums are pleasurable ones. If I’m amused by something, I’ll say so. If I’m unhappy, I don’t find any reason to whine about it here. Another thing that might give you that impression is the way I type, which happens to be rather formal.
And finally smokey does have poor reading skills becuase 1. he only read the first sentences of what i wrote and 2. it is very easy to understand what i wrote back there. my points and the evidence behind them were very clear.
I think I’ll just step back and let Smokey speak for himself. May God have mercy on your soul.
And before you tell me to do the same I will tell I just played through it again about 3-4 weeks ago to see if I was right about what I was saying.
Yeah, I believe I already stated that I skipped a few pages because I knew you are going to say the same exact thing over and over again. So honestly, it wasn’t worth my time.
and secondly you need to learn to understand what you read becuz u missed all of my points completely.
I’m the one that needs to learn how to read and understand posts? There’s nothing else I can say than to look at yourself in the mirror, and then talk into it. Hopefully you don’t talk like how you type, because then you’ll look like an idiot who…
1. Doesn’t know how to type
2. Doesn’t know how to talk
for one i never contradicted myself becuz i did not say it was easy if you used poor weps, low level magic and pathetic summons on low level characters and said it was harder an example is try beating emerald weapon with the buster sword lowel level magic pathetic summons and low level characters and you’ll discover that it is extremely hard and is almost impossible.
No, go back and read what you said. You said that the game is very hard <B>unless</B> you reach Level 99, master materia, get the KOTR, and get the Ultimate Weapons and Limit Breaks. So let me spell it out for you:
You are saying that the game is easy once you accomplish all these feats. But you also just said that it wasn’t easy. And why in the world would you want to fight Emerald Weapon in the first place with crappy weapons and materia, amongst others? If you have to do something like that to find a game challenging, then FFVII is the only game you’ve played in your entire life.
another point you missed becuase of poor reading skills is that i didnt say mastering materia was hard. i said that materia was part of the challenge of the game becuase it reduces your stats to use it therefore you are making a sacrifice of life to use powerful attacks if you would take this away then u just have another powerful weapon.
Oh, now you are starting to insult my reading skills? Ha! That’s a good one! Even if people don’t agree with what I say, they will all agree that I don’t have poor reading skills, and that mine are far better than yours.
Basically, if games are challenging <B>and</B> hard, then they are the same thing. By saying that mastering materia is a challenge, you are essentially saying that it’s hard as well. Sorry, but it’s common sense.
on the ending you missed my point again becuase of poor reading skills i didnt say that that was the only thing that could’ve happened i was trying to prove that the ending is like that for you to decide what happens on your own and that you can come up with pretty good and accurate theories on your own if you just thing about it.
Why do you constantly try to insult me with the poor reading skills crap? Sorry, but if that’s the best one that you can come up with, then don’t even bother.
And can you really prove that the ending is like that for <B>the sole purpose</B> of letting the players decide what happens on their own? Also, there aren’t too many ‘pretty good and accurate’ theories that you can come up with on your own, if you just think about it. When I say there aren’t too many, I mean less than a few and more than one, maybe!
with the limit breaks you missed the point again becuase of poor reading skills becuase what i was saying was there are other things to do and the game is telling you to do something else if you dont want to limit break, its just another challenge. and i only listed two cuz ive got complaints for writing too much but if you want them all well here you go mug, enemy skill, throw, manipulate, deathblow, morph, items, mime, counter attack, summon, and all the magics. the game is just telling you to get creative and do something else and you know what you say theres no challenge well this sounds like you consider this a big challenge and when i said run away that was when you said "if your right before a boss u have to use it" well i u run away u can use it in the boss battle thats right around the corner.
I guess this is going to be a theme with you, isn’t it? Everything you have said to ‘counter’ my arguments has been "You missed my point because of poor reading skills".
And yes, I realize that once you hit the Limit Break, there are other commands that you can force your characters to do. Like I said before, just about every person who has played FFVII uses the Physical Attack command the majority of the time, so when that feature it taken away from them, it’s stupid and wrong.
Who cares if you get complaints about writing too long? Prak and I write a lot longer than you do, but we never get complaints about the length of our posts. You know why? Because even if some of the people reading our opinions don’t necessarily agree with them, they still respect us because we are fully capable of demonstrating our beliefs in a less-than-boring manner, or in your case, repeating the same few sentences over and over again.
and when you say you dont remember saying the characters and you know eveything after aeris’ death all i have to say is this is a thing called loss of memory because this is exactly what you said word for word "The Importance of Aeris’ Death
What? And you can say I have poor reading skills, but your poor typing skills and your inability to put together coherent sentences is absolutey amusing.
I just shattered smokey argument and praks arguments just dont have the emotion the fanboys do and most of the fans see no point in going into deep analysis becuase we like the game as a whole not as something disected.
I will admit something; you are one of the very few FFVII fans who has put up a halfway descent debate. But as to shattering Prak and I’s arguments?
No way you are even in the same neighborhood as us yet.
look at what smokey wrote and look at my response and youll see that he had no idea what he was talking about and that i shattered his argument he recently posted.
And yet, the only thing you seem to be coming up with is that I have no idea what I’m talking about. Then you’ll say for like the tenth time or so that I have poor reading skills. Shattering an argument means that you counter someone’s opinion with far more reliable evidence that proves them wrong.
and smokey just makes a fool of himself and i have proved it.
Sorry kid, but I’ve been working in this thread and the other one for months now, so it’s safe to assume that I have a little idea of what I’m getting myself into, and preventing myself from looking like a fool.
so i see him as really the only one of you who can debate well and the rest of you hide behind him.
I love fresh meat, I just love it!
For quite some time now, it’s been Prak and I pounding FFVII into the ground. Every once in a while, another member posts something useful, and even comments further about other people’s posts. But all in all, it’s us two that are the main guys behind the bashing. The rest aren’t hiding; they are just watching us tear you to shreds.
and how can you say u guys dont try to make people hate the game? thats y u guys post those kind of things, why else would u do it? and finally the people that say they like it cuz they like it and it was awesome well thats just as good of an argument as all the things everyone else says. somethings u just like becuz u like them and u dont know why u like them u just like them and its hard to explain why. think about certain things u like and ull see sometimes its hard to explain why and then maybe ull understand some of those "pathetic" fanboy arguments a little better.
Maybe you’ll understand our arguments a little better if you spelled out the word ‘you’ instead of using ‘u’
If someone likes the game, then that’s their choice. I’m only here to share my opinion. When someone steps up against my posts, then I’ll counter them back, turning it into a debate. That’s the whole point of one, you know.
Now I have a question for you Prak…. are you a robot? (I only bring this up because you seem so emotionless to me. You rarely show any signs of emotion on the forums… maybe I just haven???t read enough of what you say… but I???m sorry to say, but to me you seem like a robot.)
I’m going to respond to this, even though you are talking specifically to Prak.
The only real way to show emotion on a forum is to use symbols like ! and :(. I’m sorry, but that’s just the way it is. Now, Prak and I are good friends and I know him better than you do. He isn’t emotionless, he just chooses not to show them much at all. It takes a lot for him to get pissed, and me as well. So when you call him emotionless, it’s just wrong. Prak just doesn’t show them that much.
And finally smokey does have poor reading skills becuase 1. he only read the first sentences of what i wrote and 2. it is very easy to understand what i wrote back there. my points and the evidence behind them were very clear.
I’m not even going to bother trying to prove to you that I read more than just the first sentence of your posts. It’s clearly obvious to all people, excpet you, that I am responding to your posts in whole, not just one or two sentences at a time.
Here’s the thing: Just until recently, you had very poor grammar and it was hard for me to sometimes read what you are saying. Now, I understood the pont that you were trying to make, but I just couldn’t read your posts most of the time.
Well I just didnt want to go into all the details cuz I’ve done it enough. But a lot of those things I said are in the game you just need to catch them, yet prak claims they didn’t happen. I just think he should play through it again to see that they are there and that becuase of them a lot of our points and "theories" become true or highly likely.
That is what you are supposed to do when you are debating; go into details so that people don’t think you are a complete dumbass. Like I said before, I’ve been doing this for months now, and I can’t get enough of it.
Trekkie, having very few strong points, outlasted chorns in stubborness and he continues to struggle against Prak with his weak arguments.
Obviously, Prak is a stronger debater and therefore he’ll have a stronger more convincing argument. I can’t say for sure, but it seems that Trekkie is really stubborn. He won’t conform to written English and some ideals of others.
Haha, you are awesome. Even though you are telling the truth, it made me laugh.
Ok Smokey thanks for the compliment and I’m glad to be of some enjoyment, although it wasn’t my original intention. And concerning this :
Here’s the thing: Just until recently, you had very poor grammar and it was hard for me to sometimes read what you are saying. Now, I understood the pont that you were trying to make, but I just couldn’t read your posts most of the time.
Does no one else find it strange that Trekkie seems to constantly switch between different writing styles? One moment he is writing trash with dismal arguments and the next moment he is speaking with fair grammar and stronger (but not as strong as smokey’s or Prak’s) arguments. It seems like he has multiple personalities or something, at least that is my take on it.
The things he said may not have had anything to do with what you MEANT to say, but they slashed to bits what you DID say. Furthermore, if you are going to call what someone says nonsense, PROVE IT.
Why won’t anyone respond to my post? 🙁
FF1WithAllThieves, if you wish to quote someone use this format:
"(Bracket)QUOTE=(person who you are quoting) (End Bracket) …. (quote goes here) …. (Bracket)/QUOTE(End Bracket)
Replace (Bracket) with a "["
Replace (End Bracket) with a "]"
Replace (Person who you are quoting) with the person you are quoting. Just don’t use the quotes in my example.
I hope that helps.
Why won’t anyone respond to my post? 🙁
i agree.
and on top of that, i responded to a post of yours lol
I love fresh meat, I just love it!
For quite some time now, it’s been Prak and I pounding FFVII into the ground. Every once in a while, another member posts something useful, and even comments further about other people’s posts. But all in all, it’s us two that are the main guys behind the bashing. The rest aren’t hiding; they are just watching us tear you to shreds.
that pretty much covers it. no one is hiding. its more like this. most Fanboys tend to argue relentlessly even when clearly beatin and make complete asses of themselves. most people on this side, well smokey and prak usually get to most of these things before me, plus, they aren’t blinded in their arguments.
like me for example. I am able to stay unbiased, but i dont get too involved in the actual debate cause i haven’t played the game in a while, so i dont have enough of the game memorized to be able to sight parts of the game off hand to always back up what i’ might want to say, which makes it hard for me to present a strong argument. its not hiding. Prak and Smokey are the startes I’m just letting our A game play for my team. its ok though, I’ll keep the bench nice and warm for them.
Quote:
When you complain about how materia takes away from you hp well master it and it wont but like i said you dont have to if you want a challenge. But that is part of beating the game becuase i see beating a game as completing everything possible. Materia is part of the challenge of the game you’re just trying to take it away. if you take away the hp reduction but still have the spells and such then materia is just a powerful weapon the double sided sword is a good thing becuase you are sacrificing your life to use materia which makes it challenging if you took away the hp reduction then your just making the game easier which you obviosly hate.
Sorry, but it’s not a challenge to master materia. It’s just a long, boring process of leveling up for hours and hours and hours. That is no challenge, but rather a funeral. And anyways, by the time you master materia, it really doesn’t matter anymore. If you set out to master materia only to save your HP, then you honestly just threw away some of your life.
All he’s is talking about here is the first sentence he completely missed the point of the paragraph which was not "you can just go master the materia" but "materia is one of the challenges in FF7 and if you took away the status reductions it would remove the challenge and make it easy, which is obviously something you guys hate." So see he did miss the points.
And the reason some of my posts are better than others is becuase I type them in MS Word which makes things look nicer and has spelling and grammar check. The ones that aren’t better are becuase they are just quick little responses that I type in quick response and don’t really check.
I don’t know how MS Word improves your argument. It seems that there are times when you are merely restating yourself over and over and over again. Other times you are actually making a point. I don’t know, but does anyone else think this is weird?
No it can’t. The maximum HP down effect comes from KOTR, and that’s only 10%. Therefore, if your max HP is 6000, KOTR will only bring it down to 5600. And that’s KOTR, which if used basically kills any enemy other than the Emerald and Ruby weapons in one turn.
And FF1withalltheives what if you have more than that summon equiped such as more summons and magics. Then look at the reduction.
And FF1withalltheives what if you have more than that summon equiped such as more summons and magics. Then look at the reduction.
Why would you ever need more than one summon equipped? I never used summons other than KOTR, really. It just wasn’t necessary. I mean, if you’re in a fire cave or something and you know that the boss will be weak against ice you can equip Shiva, but other than that I don’t see much point.
And in the end for me, when I had all the materia the way I wanted and all of my stats at ridiculous levels, I found that there wasn’t anything to do with those ridiculous stats.
First of all, I wish you would quote things correctly.
Second, about the materia. I’m just trying to make one thing very clear. Are you saying that mastering the materia is a challenge? Because I’m not going to respond to this statement if that’s not what you are saying.
And the reason some of my posts are better than others is becuase I type them in MS Word which makes things look nicer and has spelling and grammar check. The ones that aren’t better are becuase they are just quick little responses that I type in quick response and don’t really check.
Uh, ok? Seriously, what does that have to do with anything?
I often wonder how the one I made is still around, considering I made it 5 months ago and there is very little progression in the discussion.
Show me where anyone said that there weren’t good reasons that people liked the game.
Oh really? Have these tons of people read all of these arguments and debates?
I don’t think so.
Go play the game again with a more open mind and then you might see that it is a good game.
I will once again make a futile attempt to stop the namecalling.
Get em the fuck over here cause it’s free!
Well, if you don’t get them to post, then I don’t think I can believe you.
Two things. Firstly, you haven’t made yourself very trustworthy. Second, explain why I, who am a fan of FFVII, (it’s my favorite of the series) has come to a more moderate conclusion about FFVII. Explain why I believe Rabid Monkey’s, Smokey’s, and Prak’s arguments to be infinitely superior to yours when I myself prefer FFVII to all of the others,
Actually, that’s kind of catchy.
Just out of curiosity, Trekkies, how many times have you played through FFVII?
I get a kick out of just reading it.
I’ve done it four times, all of which I got my characters to level 99 and got three sets of master materia. I also beat the WEAPONs. Each time I figured out something new about the plot. No game should make you work so hard to figure out an incomplete plot.
By the way, your arguments are steadily getting better. Keep it up, because this is actually starting to look like a debate now.
Agreed
…Whoops……
…Whoops……
stfu and gtfo, kthxbye.
Or u can always tell it to run the program in windows 98 mode.
I once again plea for this thread to be closed.
but what we should do before it closes is have one more fan post in here and one more hater post in the other thread as like a wrap up or final plea that puts all our points together.
Now all there is, is the person to post who hates it…Prak probably…
Just to finish off this goddamn thread once and for all. Go on. You know its always me and you against each other with FF7. 😀
Do you want to contest any of those or shall I list more complaints? 😉
Fair enough. I cant argue with that.
the story was predictable and full of holes
I disagree. Maybe full of holes, but not so predictable. and I would rank it as the second best story of all the FF games (9 being the best) but still it leaves you to use your imagination to fill those holes.
the materia system rendered most of your characters useless and had a poor management system
I compltely disagree. The materia system was very versatile. maybe not as versatile as the Junction system of FF8, but much more user friendly. How on earth did it render your character’s useless? And the management system depended on how you played the game.
the control was awkward
Why? Because the X and O were used in a way most games wouldnt. That just makes it unique and unlike other games.
the villain (who was the most developed character in the entire game, sadly) was just an emo jerk with a mother complex on a power trip who essentially ripped off Kefka’s plans and didn’t even succeed, and the ending sucked balls.
Quite frankly I would be more scared of Sephiroth than Kefka. And there had to be something wrong with him to be a villain, what would be the point of a sane villain?
Do you want to contest any of those or shall I list more complaints? 😉
Happy? (I guess this thread may not close after all…)
If FF7 didn’t have such a great storyline, I would deem it a terrible game.
Just goes to show gameplay overrides graphics…
If FF7 didn’t have such a great storyline, I would deem it a terrible game.
Just goes to show gameplay overrides graphics…
That won’t convince Prak.
I also agree with Gast when he says that the storyline was full of holes, but was not at all predictable.
If FF7 didn’t have such a great storyline, I would deem it a terrible game.
Just goes to show gameplay overrides graphics…
When did anyone say it was a bad game because of the graphics? PLEASE support your opinions with facts from the game or don’t post in a debate thread.
When you guys say that the characters sucked well I just have to say that you didn???t pay attention to them. The characters had great emotional depth and had changing motives. Cloud for example is extremely emotional when Aeris dies and when Sephiroth destroys Nibelheim he gets totally pissed and kills him. His motives take a complete 180??? turn he starts off just helping Barret and Tifa for the money they pay him all he cares about in the first mission is if he???s getting paid, the only reason he stays with the two is because Tifa offers Cloud more money that was intended for Marlene. Then later he encounters Aeris and decides to guard her until he returns to sector 7. Then it becomes to save Aeris after she is kidnapped and after that it becomes his main foundation goal, to settle the score with Sephiroth. A little farther down the road the fact that they have to save the planet from both Shinra and Sephiroth is added to the goals and finally avenging Aeris??? death is added on top of all these motives. How does this make a character suck and be 1 dimensional?
The story I thought was great, it went through major changes and plot developments. It really wasn???t full of holes if you paid attention and were able to piece the things together from previous knowledge, in fact I can???t even think of a part that wasn???t explained or any questions that needed answered unlike FFX where your still don???t understand the whole Tidus being a dream thing and such in the end because there is not enough info. And you guys say there are no plot developments that everything is just an obstacle in the path because it doesn???t change how we feel about the characters, well a plot development doesn???t have to change how the reader/player feels about the characters they are also used to reinforce our previous feelings on the characters. A great example of this is in ???To Kill A Mockingbird???. In the story Bob Ewell is seen as trash and is hated by the reader in the beginning and after the trial. After the trial Bob Ewell harasses Helen, breaks into the judge???s house, and threatens Atticus. Does this make us go ???wow we now like Bob Ewell???? NO!!! It makes us hate him even more and those are all major plot developments. When he attacks Scout and Jem and is killed by Boo Radley do we feel sorry for him and hate Boo? NO!! We now just hate Bob even more and see him as even bigger trash and feel even sorrier for Boo. Obviously you don???t know as much about plot development as you think you do.
The ending as I have said countless times didn???t suck. It was a great cliffhanger to give suspense and to give the players the ability to come up with their own ideas and speculations on what really happened. This is all the more fun and can spark debates that for a lot of people are just plain fun to do. And here is what I said earlier about the ending that I think is a great example of the why the ending is good??? ???I???d have to say that The Lady and the Tiger makes the perfect counter-argument. It gives you enough information that you can draw your own conclusion leaving you with a meaningful experience of what you feel at the end. Final Fantasy VII is just like this. The whole entire game is centered around life or Mako, and death, Midgar. You could even consider these the two doors that the man were forced to chose from. The game builds and builds on this giving you information to help you make your final decision. So finally the ending comes, and it leaves you hanging. To whether or not the earth chose Life or Death and it is up for you to decide…. but wait…. they leave a little special clip at the end… the scene with Nanaki that can help sway your decision. In all honestly, Final Fantasy VII???s ending was brilliant. And to say that The Lady and the Tiger and Final Fantasy VII are nothing alike is just a horrible comparison. Clearly, two doors are in both, and only one can be chosen. These both have great impacts on your opinion of the world. I don???t know how you can say Final Fantasy VII has no meaning…. When it carries a similar message of Life and Death as The Lady and the Tiger. Yet you say The Lady, and the Tiger was meaningful…. it just doesn???t make sense to me how things that are so similar can be perceived by you as entirely different. I just cannot fathom it, I???m sorry. There are moral issues I haven???t even covered here that are centered around this Life and Death theme, that all add to the story and I would be glad to share them with you.???
Now the Materia System wasn???t the greatest system but it was still pretty cool. It was one of the games challenges because it took away stats from your characters thus making it harder. And there was still the uniqueness and usefulness in the characters. Some of the characters had more MP than others thus meaning they are supposed to use the materia that requires more MP while the other characters are supposed to use the basic magics that require less MP and those are the ones that do more physical damage. Look at Cloud and Aeris, in the beginning Cloud has little MP and does little magical damage but can do godly physical damage while Aeris does pathetic physical damage but has more MP and can do godly magical damage. So as you can see the characters are still useful and unique.
Now this is short but Prak how can you say the controls are awkward? THEY???RE THEY SAME DAMN THINGS AS THEY ARE IN ALL THE OTHER FINAL FANTASYS!!!!
Sephiroth I think was a great villain not because he was well developed and maniacal but because he was a rare and unique villain who had the same basic goal as the characters but his solution to it was the extreme and ultimate solution to the problem while the main characters had an effective less radical solution to the problem.
And in case there is still any question about my facts on why Sephiroth didn???t kill Aeris here is my reasoning yet again to prove it is not speculation. How it is speculation when the game has clearly defined these points for you:
1. Sephiroph???s physical body is embedded in the crater the entire game… this is made clear.. I believe the game even shouts it in your face… forgive but I forget the scene.. It is most possibly when Cloud hands over the black materia.
2. Since part 1 is proven, then clearly Sephiroph cannot have possibly killed Aerith… and then you must conclude it is some other form. What form is the big question. I dunno if my memory is messed up or I???ve been having weird fantasies, but I do recall from the game I time when we realize that the Sephiroph we???re trailing but a clone. A clone made from Jenova.
Therefore it is not complete speculation that I have come to this conclusion and it is based mostly on facts that I feel confident enough to say this.
This is why I believe FFVII was the best Final Fantasy and possibly one of the best if not the best game ever made.
Since what he said makes me and other fanboys look you guys might want to go back and read my wrap up.
Cloud for example is extremely emotional when Aeris dies
Extremely emotional? More like extremely unemotional. All he did was watch her get killed, wave goodbye to Sephiroth, then send her to the bottom of a lake. That’s it.
and when Sephiroth destroys Nibelheim he gets totally pissed and kills him.
Well, there is only one thing that I can counter this with…
What the heck would you do in a situation like that?
Then later he encounters Aeris and decides to guard her until he returns to sector 7.
If I recall correctly, Aeris didn’t really give Cloud much of a choice. So Cloud pretty much had to protect her.
How does this make a character suck and be 1 dimensional?
Well for one, you said that the characters had great emotional depth and changing motives. You only gave a couple examples with <I>one</I> character, which were pretty bad if I may point out myself.
Tt really wasn???t full of holes if you paid attention and were able to piece the things together from previous knowledge,
Who is the guy in the sewer in the beginning of the game? Is it Zack or just an average person? There has been so much speculation that it might actually be him there; so that would mean that whole scene with Zack and Cloud getting shot is a hoax.
in fact I can???t even think of a part that wasn???t explained or any questions that needed answered
Look above, and that is only one of several that I could throw your way.
A great example of this is in ???To Kill A Mockingbird???. In the story Bob Ewell is seen as trash and is hated by the reader in the beginning and after the trial. After the trial Bob Ewell harasses Helen, breaks into the judge???s house, and threatens Atticus. Does this make us go ???wow we now like Bob Ewell???? NO!!! It makes us hate him even more and those are al major plot developments. When he attacks Scout and Jem and is killed by Boo Radley do we feel sorry for him and hate Boo? NO!! We now just hate Bob even more and see him as even bigger trash and feel even sorrier for Boo. Obviously you don???t know as much about plot development as you think you do.
So you just put this in here to make it seem like your ‘huge’ post actually had some merit in it? I mean seriously, you’re bringing up novels now?
It was a great cliffhanger to give suspense and to give the players the ability to come up with their own ideas and speculations on what really happened.
What cliffhanger!? There was nothing to the ending. It showed Red XIII with two little cats running with him, and then some grass.
This is all the more fun and can spark debates that for a lot of people are just plain fun to do.
You keep saying that the ending let’s the gamer come up with several different possibilites as to what really happened. Well then, let’s hear ALL of yours. And also, I haven’t seen anyone else come up with their own opinion on what the ending was supposed to tell us.
So finally the ending comes, and it leaves you hanging. To whether or not the earth chose Life or Death and it is up for you to decide…. but wait…. they leave a little special clip at the end… the scene with Nanaki that can help sway your decision. In all honestly, Final Fantasy VII???s ending was brilliant.
In all honesty, you are trying to sound like a master writer or something, when it makes no sense.
Now the Materia System wasn???t the greatest system but it was still pretty cool. It was one of the games challenges because it took away stats from your characters thus making it harder.
But that’s a point I have been trying to make for quite some time now; a game shouldn’t have to take something away in order to make it harder. Good games add something that brings the difficulty up, not taking something away.
Look at Cloud and Aeris, in the beginning Cloud has little MP and does little magical damage but can do godly physical damage while Aeris does pathetic physical damage but has more MP and can do godly magical damage. So as you can see the characters are still useful and unique.
Um, no, sorry. Are you in your own little world or something again, because I hope you never find the ticket to come back here.
Cloud is capable of having almost as much MP as Aeris does in the beginning; it just depends on how much Materia you give him. And no, he doesn’t do ‘godly’ physical damage as you say; although it is the best in the party. And it’s vice versa with Aeris as well, she does not do ‘godly’ magical damage. It’s only the best in the party at that moment.
Sephiroth I think was a great villain not because he was well developed and maniacal but because he was a rare and unique villain who had the same basic goal as the characters but his solution to it was the extreme and ultimate solution to the problem while the main characters had an effective less radical solution to the problem.
So you are saying that Sephiroth wasn’t well developed and wasn’t manical? It’s good to finally see you admit something that is true for once in your life.
And please explain to me how in the world Sephiroth is a rare and unique villian. No, it’s not his hair or his long sword either.
This is why I believe FFVII was the best Final Fantasy and possibly one of the best if not the best game ever made.
Wow, the worst example ever as to what makes FFVII one of the best games of all time.
Thanks, it took forever to find a picture of a damn umpa.
I will address the controls and materia management questions though. The controls were awkward because:
1) The default movement is walking, which is utter bullshit. Most of the time, you’ll want to run, so why not make running the default movement and have you hold down a button to walk? Very stupid.
2) Directional controls could be very awkward. I often wound up running in the wrong direction because I didn’t know how the controls would respond in areas with stranger camera perspectives. However, that may just have been a failing of the PC version. I can’t know for sure.
Materia management was flawed in that there were no provisions in the game to quickly remove all materia from a character, transfer them quickly between characters, remove materia from characters not in the current party, or adequately sort them. It made rearranging them a complete hassle.
My gripe about materia rendering many of the characters useless was obviously misunderstood by some people, so i’ll clarify. Every character was capable of doing the same tasks in combat and could be easily changed, so there was really no reason at all to focus on any characters except your preferred party. The rest of the characters got tossed to the sidelines because they had nothing unique that gave them a distinct purpose.
So what? Holding down x is not that hard. The analogue controllers were not released at that time, so you couldnt have the movement based around that. In racing games you have to hold down X to move fast.
2) Directional controls could be very awkward. I often wound up running in the wrong direction because I didn’t know how the controls would respond in areas with stranger camera perspectives. However, that may just have been a failing of the PC version. I can’t know for sure.
Some areas did have strange camera angles. But you find that in any game, even in Final Fantasy VIII, when you go into space on disc 3, which i am sure you like more than FF7.
Materia management was flawed in that there were no provisions in the game to quickly remove all materia from a character, transfer them quickly between characters, remove materia from characters not in the current party, or adequately sort them. It made rearranging them a complete hassle.
Yes there was. If you only played the PC version it may be different, I dont know. But in the materia menu you can go Arrange and select Remove All, Transfer and Arrange to do all three things you listed above.
My gripe about materia rendering many of the characters useless was obviously misunderstood by some people, so i’ll clarify. Every character was capable of doing the same tasks in combat and could be easily changed, so there was really no reason at all to focus on any characters except your preferred party. The rest of the characters got tossed to the sidelines because they had nothing unique that gave them a distinct purpose.[/quote]
Not necessarily, there would be no point giving Barret or Cid the best magic at the beginning of the game because Aeris is a lot better at magic than the rest of the characters. Each character was either physical, magical or a mixture of both. But at the end of the game when you train them up enough, then yes, all characters are virtually the same and it is a matter of personal preference. But isnt that the same in all FF’s?
I’m sure Prak that this will continue for much longer as it always has (:-P althought you said yourself that I was one of the few people who had a convincing argument about FF7 :-)).
First of all I said sephiroth was a good villain in spite of the fact he is maniacal well developed meaning that he has those qualities and the ones I added.
Secondly when I used "To Kill A Mockingbird" I didn’t use it just to give my post merit and to quote a novel i used it as an example which if you go back put it in context and read it makes perfect sense and is the perfect example.
Thirdly I posted a lot more of Clouds character development than you posted and I didn’t post all the others becuase I didn’t think you guys wanted to read a novel unless you do. And Cloud is very emotional when Aeris dies, either you forget the scene and characters lines or you don’t put any emotion or voice into what the characters say and just read the words and if you do that then yes there is no emotion in that scene. And if he had no emotion like you say then in the nibleheim scene instead of killing spehiroth he would just say "oh well…I don’t care" and walk away.
And when you say the ending wasn’t a cliffhanger well then I just have to ask ARE YOU ON DRUGS?!?! the ending is a major cliffhanger or do you just not understand what you watch and just go oooh pretty colors.
Now games can totally take away stats to make it challenging. multiple great games have done this. some examples are PSO, Diablo 2, FFX, WoW, etc. its called having to make sacrifices in the game which is a perfect way to make a game challenging.
And if Cloud is capable of having as much MP as Aeris in the begining then why does Cloud at most likely lvl 8 when you find Aeris have only abot 68 MP while Aeris who is at lvl 5 have 128 MP??
And finally the reason I was repeating myself was becuase it was a WRAP UP!!! meaning bringing all my points together and putting them into one final statement.
yeh i agree about the materia bit, on ffx you have to work and get your stuff, it can be annoying 🙁
See, you did!
Since what he said makes me and other fanboys look you guys might want to go back and read my wrap up.
maybe u should take a damn chill pill:P
Here goes that ‘taking my words out of context’ crap. I quoted exactly what you posted. I didn’t quote everything, because I figured that stuff didn’t deserve mentioning.
First of all I said sephiroth was a good villain in spite of the fact he is maniacal well developed meaning that he has those qualities and the ones I added.
No, you said that Sephiroth was a great villian <I>because</I> he is rare and unique. That’s all you said about it, once again just saying stuff to hear yourself talk without backing up your claims.
Secondly when I used "To Kill A Mockingbird" just to give my post merit and to quote a novel i used it as an example which if you go back put it in context and read it makes perfect sense and is the perfect example.
I did read that part, but there is really nothing that I could have said in regards to the book or the example you used from it. That’s why I didn’t quote it.
Thirdly I posted a lot more of Clouds character development than you posted
I haven’t really posted anything about Cloud’s character development in such a long time, maybe never.
and I didn’t post all the others becuase I didn’t think you guys wanted to read a novel unless you do.
No, you didn’t post others because you don’t have anything else to come up with, unless you want to prove me wrong for once. I’ve made quite a few very long posts that take a while to read. So don’t try that excuse just because you really don’t have anything else. Seriously, if you have a ‘novel’ to post about all the characters’ development throughout the game, be my guest. I’ll gladly read it, and decide if there is any merit in it or not.
And Cloud is very emotional when Aeris dies, either you forget the scene and characters lines or you don’t put any emotion or voice into what the characters say and just read the words and if you do that then yes there is no emotion in that scene.
There is very little emotion in the scene. He picks up her dead body, says a few words, then dumps her to who knows where?
And if he had no emotion like you say then in the nibleheim scene instead of killing spehiroth he would just say "oh well…I don’t care" and walk away.
Like I said before, that wasn’t emotion that he was using. That is pure instincts.
And when you say the ending wasn’t a cliffhanger well then I just have to ask ARE YOU ON DRUGS?!?! the ending is a major cliffhanger or do you just not understand what you watch and just go oooh pretty colors.
No drugs.
The ending has no cliff-hanging to it, period. What makes it filled with so much suspense that has it’s players awing over what is going to happen next, or what really happened? There is nothing. Seriously, I can’t say this enough. The entire ending is basically watching Red XIII and two cats exercise, and then stop for a breather when they see a bunch of grass.
And if Cloud is capable of having as much MP as Aeris in the begining then why does Cloud at most likely lvl 8 when you find Aeris have only abot 68 MP while Aeris who is at lvl 5 have 128 MP??
Learn how to structure your sentences, please.
I said he is ‘capable’, not ‘going’ to have the same amount. And it’s pretty simple actually; load Cloud with every materia up to that point, and don’t let Aeris have a single one.
What you just said about why the ending is not a cliffhanger are all the reasons it is a cliffhanger and all you did was define a cliffhanger.
Now with the emotions, instincts are based off of emotions enough said.
Now with taking things out of context you make my statements make no sense when in context they make perfect sense. Those things that were not worth mentioning are what make my statements make sense and you just leave them out so it will strengthen your argument that I make no sense.
Racing games also require you to keep your speed under control. Too fast or too slow makes you lose the race. In an RPG, you will want to run the vast majority of the time and making you hold down an extra button to do so is just plain silly.
Some areas did have strange camera angles. But you find that in any game, even in Final Fantasy VIII, when you go into space on disc 3, which i am sure you like more than FF7.
Actually, I don’t like FFVIII either. But that’s beside the point. That game’s quality is not the topic of debate.
Yes there was. If you only played the PC version it may be different, I dont know. But in the materia menu you can go Arrange and select Remove All, Transfer and Arrange to do all three things you listed above.
The PC version was the one I played start to finish. I played the original PlayStation version first, which also lacked those features. Perhaps the version of the game you have had some extra features added.
Not necessarily, there would be no point giving Barret or Cid the best magic at the beginning of the game because Aeris is a lot better at magic than the rest of the characters. Each character was either physical, magical or a mixture of both. But at the end of the game when you train them up enough, then yes, all characters are virtually the same and it is a matter of personal preference. But isnt that the same in all FF’s?
No, it isn’t the same in all of them. Take IX, for example. Every character had their own distinct uses, making party selection far more important than it ever was in FFVII. Most of the earlier FFs were the same way.
I’m sure Prak that this will continue for much longer as it always has (:-P althought you said yourself that I was one of the few people who had a convincing argument about FF7 :-)).
Actually, I didn’t say you were convincing, just more reasonable than most. 😉
I don’t believe I said that. I said that I knew everything would be fine when the music changed. No cliffhanger.
What is the best FF game.
Ok what is the best game you have ever played?My favorate FF game is FFI.
well thats why there is ff7 advent children. enough said
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think Square had making AC in mind when they ended FFVII. Someone please follow up on this because I’m not quite sure.
its ppl like u that end up at the mental hospital….just whanted u to know that,so shut the hell up
That rival’s Trekkies’s "Smokey is on drugs" argument for most irrelevant statement in this thread. People have the right to make arguments whether they’re any good at it or not.
A cliffhanger can be briefly described as this:
An event or conclusion that leads the viewer filled with suspense or anticipation as to what is going to happen next.
I was unaware the game was released early. Not that I doubt you or anything, but how do you know that that was what caused it?
I don’t know which part of that to correct first. I’ll just pick one randomly. First off, the graphics were the only thing that Rabid Monkey said were superior about FFVII to the older games. It’s RedXIII, not RedXIX. It’s my favorite game too, and you’re welcome to think that it’s the best, but please support your opinions with facts in a debate thread.
Good character development? FF 7 did that well with a FEW of the characters. A few. Yuffie was very brief and I don’t even want to say anything about Cait Sith. Cid was brief and his relationship to Shinra is unclear. This game was like 40 hours long, and I am sure they could have made some better character development.
Sound: No doubt Final Fantasy 7 doesn’t miss here. It wasn’t that bad. The music was appropriate for the scenes. Nicely done.
CG Cinematics: They were the best and first of its time. Are you guys on drugs? All of you who are saying it needs a graphics boost. DO you know how other games that came out just before this looked?! Don’t compare FF7 to something that came after it because obviously people would try to make the next thigns better.
Storyline: What can I say? Decent. Long, and complicated. Hard to understand even after you played through the game multiple times.
Battle System: Sexy. I still think the materia system is the best one ever. So versatile. Limit breaks. OMFG. GREATNESS. SO sexy
All in all FF7 was a good/great game. Somewhere in the middle. These are all my points. If anyone wants to add anything or show me if I am wrong or show me anything to prove me worng just lemme know. I don’t think its the BEST game, but it’s good enough.
What do you think makes a game good?
Good character development? FF 7 did that well with a FEW of the characters. A few. Yuffie was very brief and I don’t even want to say anything about Cait Sith. Cid was brief and his relationship to Shinra is unclear. This game was like 40 hours long, and I am sure they could have made some better character development.
I’ve said most of that before. However, you say you don’t want to mention Cait Sith, but that makes no sense in the context of your statement because he was easily one of the most developed characters.
Sound: No doubt Final Fantasy 7 doesn’t miss here. It wasn’t that bad. The music was appropriate for the scenes. Nicely done.
No argument. Music was good, although not spectacular.
CG Cinematics: They were the best and first of its time. Are you guys on drugs? All of you who are saying it needs a graphics boost. DO you know how other games that came out just before this looked?! Don’t compare FF7 to something that came after it because obviously people would try to make the next thigns better.
Here’s where you’re dead wrong. Blood Omen was released before FFVII and had superior CG scenes, particularly when you compare scenes featuring the characters of the two games. Sadly, the vastly superior game has been cast down into a small circle of fandom, doomed to play second fiddle to an unworthy rival.
Storyline: What can I say? Decent. Long, and complicated. Hard to understand even after you played through the game multiple times.
Decent? Hardly. The innumerable plot holes and simplicity of its progression hold FFVII’s story back into the realm of mediocrity, with no hope of escape.
Long? Nuh uh. The actual story path was relatively short. Getting from point A to point B consumed most of the time you spent playing the game.
Complicated? Hardly. The only thing that could make it seem complicated was the tragic lack of clarity that most of the game suffered from.
Hard to understand? Of course certain aspects are, those being the ones that weren’t finished. Hardcore fans try to cover up that simple and obvious fact with the flawed excuse that it leaves room for interpretation, but that doesn’t fly with anyone else.
Battle System: Sexy. I still think the materia system is the best one ever. So versatile. Limit breaks. OMFG. GREATNESS. SO sexy
I regard it as an atrocity. The materia system makes most of your characters useless by allowing each of them to perform any possible task. There’s no need to use all of them because you can change your preferred party’s abilities to suit any situation.
Limit breaks were nothing new and its immediate predecessor and successor did it better, IMO. Whereas they occurred pretty randomly in VII, they came up at useful times in VI and VIII.
mckirkn
?!?!?! An OPEN MINDED FFVII fan? *heart attack*
See that, FFVII fanboys? That is solid proof against your stupid "thats just you’re opinion!!!!11111" argument.
Yeah, but thats jus as bad as them doing it. You dont have to stoop down to their level. Not trying to be an ass or anything 🙂
You’re right. I did step over the line now that I think about it. I apologize if I have offended anyone.
When did that happen? (If it was way long back I apologize I wasn’t here for the first 19 pages) lol 🙂
no harm done:)
And even if you can give characters specific roles, that doesn’t change the fact that most of them are rendered useless, especially when you’ve used materia to increase a character’s stats. Other characters don’t get the same opportunity for advancement because of the auto-leveling. Thus, they wind up being useless compared to the characters you’ve spent time on, with no possible way of making them equal.
WHAT?!?…how are the rendered useless?
and as the game being too easy…yes..WE KNOW…you have been using that excuse since you first started sayin FF7 sucks…OK…we get the picture…and of course its easy if you jus pick up the game, go straight through and beat it. The difficulty comes from doing all the extra stuff…
-Emerald WEAPON
-Ruby WEAPON
-obtaining all limit break manuals
-obtaining all ultimate weapons
-getting every character up to lvl 99..with all stats at 255
-mastering every materia….3 TIMES!!!
-obtaining 5000 pts at speed square
-getting gold chocobos
-learning the best materia combos
doing all of this is quite the challenge and takes up at least 200 -250 hrs of gameplay…specially since everyone seems to be against strategy guides…(i am definitely against strat guides first time through games)…but i doubt rabid monkey got all of these things accomplished without a strat guide or walkthrough of some sort his first time through…thats BS. But this is maybe how square got a hold of a larger audience….they made the game easy to pick up and beat…but for all those hardcore RPGers…they put in all kinds of extra stuff to come up with a challenge….and to me…it looked like it worked
and as the game being too easy…yes..WE KNOW…you have been using that excuse since you first started sayin FF7 sucks…OK…we get the picture…and of course its easy if you jus pick up the game, go straight through and beat it. The difficulty comes from doing all the extra stuff…
-Emerald WEAPON
-Ruby WEAPON
-obtaining all limit break manuals
-obtaining all ultimate weapons
-getting every character up to lvl 99..with all stats at 255
-mastering every materia….3 TIMES!!!
-obtaining 5000 pts at speed square
-getting gold chocobos
-learning the best materia combos
Either you’re retarded or the game was just that easy, but the side quests were easy as hell too. That stuff just takes a long time, but it’s still piss easy.
Me? Use a strategy guide? That’s funny, I never use em. I’m hardcore, bitch. But seriously? It wasn’t that hard, it just took a long time talking to people and figuring out what to do, like talking to the chocobo guy near Bone Village. Plus by the time I had to fight the American weapons I just fought them a couple times and rounded up some good materia and beat them both pretty easily.
-Emerald WEAPON
-Ruby WEAPON
-obtaining all limit break manuals
-obtaining all ultimate weapons
-getting every character up to lvl 99..with all stats at 255
-mastering every materia….3 TIMES!!!
-obtaining 5000 pts at speed square
-getting gold chocobos
-learning the best materia combos
-I beat Emerald Weapon at level 55. I beat Ruby weapon at level 60 from leveling up from beating Emerald Weapon.
-I obtained all ultimat weapons in a matter of 7 hours. I found most of them as I played through the damn game. The only time consuming thing was playing the piano in Tifa’s house to get her Final Limit break. That took a while. Challenging? No, I don’t think so. Just annoying as hell.
-Getting gold chocobos. I mixed and matched and took me a week. Difficult? No just annoying.
-Mastering every materia three times? I did that at the North Crater with the magic pots. Difficult? No just annoying.
-Getting every character up to level 99? Magic Pots. Got nothin. I did it in 4 days. Difficult? No i don’t think so.
-Obtaining 5000 points at the Speed square? Fine. This was the ONLY challenging thing in the game.
I never use a strategy guide and I can’t even afford it. In an RPG nothing is hidden from you if you are smart… I don’t know why you are calling people dicks. Is it because they managed to all this without a strategy guide and you couldn’t? Don’t waste my time with FF 7 being hard because the only way it’s hard is if you play with the Buster Sword equipped throughout the whole game.
Why? You should be able to find everything in a game without a strategy guide! That’s the way games are meant to be played!
OMFG MAN. WHAT THE *(#&$( HELL. Did you EVEN READ my post before you posted that shit?! Look back. Read my post is is RIGHT there.
No, ranting is what you fanboys keep doing. We aren’t ranting, because we are actually supporting our claims with factual evidence. Now if we were just saying that FFVII sucks or the characters are one-dimensioal without proof, then that would be considered ranting.
Ranting is nothing more than saying the same things over and over again, and then running away scared when you are backed into a corner and found guilty of having no evidence on you. So in essence, you just got copped out.
me call you names?..for one thing…me sayin shut yur mouth isnt callin anyone a name…and as for you guys…ive been called probably 15-30 names since i joined a week ago…i find this actually a great acomplishment…so why dont you get yur story straight….for once
That’s not what anyone’s trying to do. This thread’s whole purpose of existence is as a debate. What you’re supposed to do in this thread is use factual evidence to support whether or not it is a good game, NOT explain why you like it, because weirdos like me like games for reasons other than those that make it good. And it ISN’T just a matter of opinion, as Dragoncurry and I have proven about 7,987 times. The reason why Prak is bashing people is because of the fact that they don’t use any factual evidence to support their claims. He’s not telling anyone not to like the game; he’s just saying not to post your opinion with no factual evidence to support it in this thread. And as Rabid Monkey said in the other thread, if you want it to be closed, then stop posting and bringing it back to the top.
As for you, Unseen, I don’t know why you crave so much attention. I don’t know if you’re a neglected child or you’re just bored, but you don’t have to behave like that online.
For everyone else, don’t let what anyone says in here get you angry. Just keep calm and support your points with fact, and then people who insult others are the ones who look stupid.
oh no, i wasnt neglected as a child…but i am bored…i happen to have early release from school…and i dont work til about 3:00…
he’s just saying not to post your opinion with no factual evidence to support it
how do i act online??? prak keeps calling everyone fuckers and the such, and hijacking threads saying everyone is stupid on this ff7 topic…im gonna have to ask to see some "factual evidence" to support your claim, or for you to not state your opinion…and saying that we havent shown "any" factual evidence is stupid…i would have to say out of 100 pages of two threads…im sure 1 person has made some…ill go check after i post this…but even 1 fact would show that we have shown some…
In the little time I have left, I have only one thing to say.
haha
You’ll find some, yes. I, myself, posted evidence to support FFVII. Almost immediately afterward, the thread was flooded with fanboys saying "The game was perfect just because it was." My main point to you was that this is a debate thread, and all you’re doing is taunting people. I’m not justifying their giving in to your taunts, but it’s really not necessary. Let the people who want to debate debate.
Yeah, you shouldn’t drink anything while you’re reading this thread.
oh no, i wasnt neglected as a child…but i am bored…i happen to have early release from school…and i dont work til about 3:00…
That’s pretty ironic, I think.
Is this a restaurant, Unseen? ‘Cause you just got served!!!
Just cause someone proves you are wrong (quite frequently)doesnt mean they are an ass. You are just really confused man. Maybe you should think before you type.
I think what Rabid Monkey was saying is that you spend your time in this thread writing things without any basis and then going on random rants because you are ‘bored’, and then you say that other people bitch when they are just trying to stop you from doing ritarded things such as….
ok…so…what is your point again…i might of missed it…but since you asked me to…ill keep commenting…. comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment comment…happy?
Yeah. This was your response when I tried to show you the FF difficulty argument you raised may have been flawed. I wasn’t even mean to your ass.
And then this
how do i act online??? prak keeps calling everyone fuckers and the such, and hijacking threads saying everyone is stupid on this ff7 topic…im gonna have to ask to see some "factual evidence" to support your claim, or for you to not state your opinion…and saying that we havent shown "any" factual evidence is stupid…i would have to say out of 100 pages of two threads…im sure 1 person has made some…ill go check after i post this…but even 1 fact would show that we have shown some…
Fine. Prak does call people fuckers. Prak also posted this:
Second post on the page. Yes unseen. That is factual evidence. He compared it to games outside the market at the same time and covered most of the topics right there.
So fine, Prak does call people fuckers. He also posts evidence to support his points and doesn’t waste time with a post like this …
oh…im sure i will…it turns out im jus too lazy to have gotten to reading all of those pages already…but ill get to it
Which is why you don’t see any factual evidence. You didn’t read it. So you say that we are asses when you yourself post arguments without factual basis, or any counter to previous arguments because YOU didn’t read it.
And you call us asses because we told you to reconsider your views. If you don’t want to? Fine. But why you continue commenting on how bitchy everyone else is when you know you made those comments from you not knowing the previous posts (yes that means ignorant) is beyond me. SO before you call people asses maybe you should think and see exactly WHY you are calling them that before someone comes along and tells you that you are wrong. ..Again.
PART I
GRAPHICS
note: if any information reguarding Blood Omen is not true…correct me. I have not personally played this game before, but have read stuff on it for writing this argument.
Blood Omen was released before FFVII and had superior CG scenes, particularly when you compare scenes featuring the characters of the two games. Sadly, the vastly superior game has been cast down into a small circle of fandom, doomed to play second fiddle to an unworthy rival.
Even if the graphics are second to blood omen..which they are not (in my opinion), that doesnt make it a horrible game. Being in second place in graphics is actually great. But you always talk about stating your opinion, and backing it up with fact? Well, i dont see any facts to back your opinion up. I want to see screen shots of both games to see which one is really better. Lucky for everyone, i have taken the liberty of doing this.
The following pictures are taken of the CGs which is what prak was talkin about. The first one is of Sephiroth from Final Fantasy 7, and the second is from Blood Omen
This is the only screenshot of blood omen CG that i could find. It does seem to be really good no doubt. A strong contender with FF7. I really dont know which one is better. I do like ff7’s because you get more overall detail with ff7’s CGs such as with the hair. On Blood Omen’s CG…it looks like a blob of something on his head instead of his hair and the overall look of him looks like plastic as if he was a ken doll (a ken doll of death at that)…and as with sephy, you can see individual strands, and there seems to be a bit more texture to it. But BO’s looks more realistic instead of the anime style that final fantasy has. Although thats not really a problem with lack of graphics, jus the creators personal preference on displaying his characters. I would rate this category a tie. Now with the battles of the games.
In final fantasy 7, the battles are awesome to say the least graphic wise. The camera is always moving in a fully polygonal 3d world. When one character makes an attack…the camera whips around…zooms in on them, and shows the consequence of the attack. And the characters look great!And the summons are a whole nother thing by themselves. Truly amazing for not being CG. As for BO…it looks to me as if it is a pseudo 3d game. It has 3d looking characters on a 2d background. All they have are "frames" of animation where they jus have different 2d pics, and display them at different times to make the character have animation…i do not see at all how this even compares to final fantasy 7…Have a look…
There seems to be no contest with these pics.
I believe this is the only two modes for BO…CG and game mode. But final fantasy has 4. world map, battle, CG, and in town/dungeon…so ill pile the rest of ff’s pics here. The in town/dungeons are first of its kind. They have a pre-rendered cg backgrounds, with fully polygonal characters moving all about them. The character gets realistically smaller the farther away from the camera he is. Top knotch for its time. And the world map…you are now presented with a fully 3-D polygon world that you are free to roam in. The world is wonderfully presented…allowing you to adjust the camera angles and zoom in or out to your own personal preferences. And they are just beautiful. I will admit that the characters in both world map and in town modes are a bit blocky, but they are higher end in the graphic spectrum cuz they are fully 3d, and you can rotate around them in real time, which as of BO, this is not true.
No doubt, CGs and the battles were what really blows the competition away. But the other stuff is first of its kind, and was the stepping stone that got our graphics to where they are today.
What i hate more than anything is everyone sayin "oh my god…ohh…final fantasy VIII and IX have better graphics…ooo…sooo…final fantasy VII sucks…"..i must of read this 3-4 times on the first page of the other thread….WELL NO SHIT SHERLOCK….someone hand these people an award for their observation….of course the later final fantasies are gonna have better graphics…i would hope so, or no ones gonna buy the new ones…final fantasy VII had better graphics than Final fantasy VI…so…final fantasy VI sucks…well..mystery solved there…
Prak jus talks about how the CGs are better…which i say they are about the same…when the CGs are not near the most important factor in the game. In a game that could last on average of 45 hrs…only 1 hr of it was CG…so you really had no argument here at all prak. If you would have backen yurself up like all you FF7 haters out there talk about…everyone cud have seen that BO is second to a damn worthy rival graphics wise.
In reviewing Blood Omen, GameMonkeys gave the following comment on the graphics…
Graphics: 2 out of 5 => The graphics in this game are not at all impressive even for the time at which it was created.
Conclusion: I believe that FF7 beat BO on all levels except for CG’s which are a tie. Final Fantasy VII has also been given extremely high scores on graphics from just about every reviewer i have looked at. I would have to say that Final Fantasy VII was in the top 2-3 percentile graphics wise…So final fantasy’s graphics are a winner in making this game a "GREAT" game (for its time of course!) 😀
What I said was in response to Dragoncurry stating that FFVII’s cg scenes were the "first and best of its time." They were not the first cg cutscenes of that type, as proven by the fact that BO had them. As for which is better, the BO scenes had a larger color pallette (particularly noticable in backgrounds), better shading and lighting effects, and a higher framerate. Those technical merits are what I say makes BO’s cg scenes superior.
This is not true. I came to numerous sites saying that the graphics were only "mediocre"…if i can come across these again..ill post them.
As for which is better, the BO scenes had a larger color pallette (particularly noticable in backgrounds), better shading and lighting effects, and a higher framerate. Those technical merits are what I say makes BO’s cg scenes superior.
Well, for the higher color pallette, this could be true, but there is nothing real noticable to say ff’s aren’t as good. Better shading and lighting? The reason you think that BO’s had better shading is because it takes place in a dark twisted gothic setting, so they had the opportunity to use it more, which in turn you remember it more. I can think of one or two scenes where they showed off really notable shading that probably surpasses BO’s. As for lighting, i believe that ff7 had better lighting all around. Now, framerate…the reason BOs is better is because it is of lesser quality than that of ff7’s. And again…it really isnt noticable. Im sure everybody that plays FF7 is goin
…."argh…damn square for making the framerate of these beautifuly done CGs jus a tiny bit lower than some other less quality games that i really cant even notice….i…JUS CANT GO ON PLAYING…*throws ff7 out the window"….
I am currently in the process of downloading BO, and ill get my web server back up and running, and ill give everyone a link where two CGs will be compared side by side, and everyone can see for thereselves which one is better.
The graphics for the game were quite well in keeping with the accepted standards of the time and have, in fact, aged much better than FFVII’s graphics. Any such reviews are probably biased in some way or were written more recently by people who think that tetris is a bad game because its graphics are too simple.
Well, for the higher color pallette, this could be true, but there is nothing real noticable to say ff’s aren’t as good.
And you know this from a screenshot or two?
Better shading and lighting? The reason you think that BO’s had better shading is because it takes place in a dark twisted gothic setting, so they had the opportunity to use it more, which in turn you remember it more. I can think of one or two scenes where they showed off really notable shading that probably surpasses BO’s.
You know this after only seeing screenshots of the BO FMVs?
As for lighting, i believe that ff7 had better lighting all around.
You believe? Based on what? I’ll answer for you. Pure fanboyism.
Now, framerate…the reason BOs is better is because it is of lesser quality than that of ff7’s.
You are a true bullshit artist, you know that?
I am currently in the process of downloading BO, and ill get my web server back up and running, and ill give everyone a link where two CGs will be compared side by side, and everyone can see for thereselves which one is better.
Good idea. Just be sure to include yourself in that everyone you mentioned.
wow..your right…you really cant tell which one is better…wow…i think…yes…yes i see it now…i think…BO’s 2d sprite graphics are better…holy crap…not! I think that you need to go lie down and re-think your life over chorns…and stop posting idiotic ideas that are nowhere close to being true….you dont have to be a fanboy of BO to think its better..jus a guy with no life but to use everylast bit of energy hating ff7…
Oh wait let me be a smart arse like the rest of you…
NYYYYARGH!, see, i was rrrright. The graphics are much better in BO
-Yes, they are nearly as good as the original 23 star trek episodes
-Ye… wait. Theres was 22 original star trek episodes, NYYYYARGH!
-Oh you are such a nerd. There was 23.
-22!
*slaps all round the house*
Thanks to South Park for my brilliant act.
I don’t like it. I liked the WEAPONS and some characters (NOT Cloud, Aeris or Sephiroth), and the music was very good. That’s about it…
Thats quite funny of you to say actually…
First:
well, there was an intelligent thing to post.
I havent seen you post one thing intelligent while posting in this thread.
Second:
but at least take it to another thread instead of destroying this for the i dont know how manyth time
This coming from a person who has posted nothing but crap for the last 5 pages. I think you shared a part in ruining the thread, mister.
Third:
lets see if we can nominate you for biggest dumbass of the year
You just got yourself nominated for another award… worst comeback ever!
Im not seeing much on topic stuff lately…
Seeming as i posted once on the last page (maybe not even that!… THAT MEANS ZERO FOOLS!) i dont see how i could have possible posted anything intelligent. AND HOW THE FUCK ARE YOUR LIES… "trying to get back on topic."
Seems as if you are still lying to yourself.
everyone better bow down to his holyness…the one of great verbal wrath
Hey i never said i was holy, and where the fuck does "verbal wrath" come from?
Just because you ant think up an insult, dont make up ones that are really, really lame.
Also i see you edited that bit in, were you like, "Heh, lets see how he goes with more of my bullshit… hmm, i guess that was kinda lame… what to put in…? Ah yes, the perfect remedy, complete and utter bullshit! Yes i think i have a spare case of that lying around"
uh oh…watch out…lil johnny can count and subtract….
I dont know whether you fucked up with that or are trying to take the piss but failing dismally…
*Discussion over*
Oh god, that is a dumd thing to say.
1. What have you gained?
2. Stop wasting our time? Well you’re the one trying to be correct and you HAVE to have the last word ( so you post, post after post, hoping that at least one you will say something intelligent, but only out of pure luck )so basically you are wasting your own time bothering to come here, you will just be out-witted.
Im ending this discussion for fear of being Banned. So its over, let it go, and dont put in the last word, it will just come out all fuck-tarded and stupid.
well, it turns out that the download failed…and i cant seem to get any other good bit torrents of BO. If anyone has any BO CG’s they could submit to me, or tell me where to find them, ill try to get the comparison page up ASAP
Nice real nice. He tries to get back on topic..you judge him from his previous posts..and call hima fuckhead. Real nice chewey. If your ass called me that after I posted some viable evidence I would slap you. Even if he is wrong. EVEN if he is wrong. NO REASON TO CALL HIM A FUCKHEAD. None at all. Say it nicely and I am 100 fucking percent sure he won’t say some insult. "I think you are wrong and here and here is why." Just because you didn’t think of that before you typed something on the fucking page you deserve to be the fuckhead of the fucking year.
Nice real nice. He tries to get back on topic..you judge him from his previous posts..and call hima fuckhead. Real nice chewey. If your ass called me that after I posted some viable evidence I would slap you. Even if he is wrong. EVEN if he is wrong. NO REASON TO CALL HIM A FUCKHEAD. None at all. Say it nicely and I am 100 fucking percent sure he won’t say some insult. "I think you are wrong and here and here is why." Just because you didn’t think of that before you typed something on the fucking page you deserve to be the fuckhead of the fucking year.
Oh god… stupidity
I did that because what you just was complete and utter stupidity. I do it everywhere, not just here. Basically coz im a prick when i wish to be, sometimes when i dont. He does deserve it and what is all this crap about "change"?
I don’t mind if people say mean stuff to jackasses but he was pretty nice when he posted that thread and I didn’t see any reason to call him a fackbag. Unless of course you were referring to his posts BEFORE the one where he showed his proof. Which I highly doubt because you said he had nothing intelligent in the last 5 pages and that is not true. No nothing against you or anyone but that name calling after he posted that was uncalled for.
lol, i believe i jus got stupider by reading that…and let me tell you, that is not an easy task. Anywho, yes, i was trying to get this thread back on topic, and at least prak was adult enough to debate back…while chewy and chorns jus gave me shit. Its not like i care, but wasnt it you guys tellin us about stating all this shit without backing it up…you guys didnt back one god damn thing up, and harassed me the whole time. Yes, i bet you guys just feel so much bigger now…woo…if you want to harass me, or flame me…jus pm me, its not like i care all that much…ill be happy to reply to your hatemail there…at least lets keep the threads clean of this shit for now on…what you are doing is making you look as bad as i did a couple pages ago…and thats a BURN FYI…so lets keep it clean not for my sakes…but for everyone else that wants to actually debate…
I don’t mind if people say mean stuff to jackasses but he was pretty nice when he posted that thread and I didn’t see any reason to call him a fackbag. Unless of course you were referring to his posts BEFORE the one where he showed his proof. Which I highly doubt because you said he had nothing intelligent in the last 5 pages and that is not true. No nothing against you or anyone but that name calling after he posted that was uncalled for.
Um, i dont post in this thread much. I just came in, saw unseen be a fuck face, then bagged him. Plus, i havent seen much of this proof, or any of the proof he said he was gonna present.
oh my.
When you mention ‘everyone’, that is basically talking about a few people. Prak and I are the two people that are contributing the most to this thread from the ‘hater’ side, and we are doing nothing like what you are accusing you to do. In fact, I haven’t said anything in this thread for a while, because all it has turned out to be is nothing more than immature teenagers trying to impress other immature teenagers with ‘who can come up with the better insult’.
Seriously, unseen, you started to finally talk about FFVII, and then you let Chewey get the best of you. Don’t say anything back to fuel the fire, and keep posting your opinions. You are acting immature, so just let it go and keep doing what you were previously doing. And if you notice, the only ones that are harassing you are immature people who haven’t posted anything great themselves.
Chewey, I don’t even know why you posted here in the first place. You haven’t contributed anything useful to this thread, ever. Then all of a sudden you come in strutting how unseen hasn’t done anything? Yes there was some anger in this thread before you came, but you only intensified the flame that much more. You are acting the most immature at all, and if you have nothing to add except ‘YOU’RE A FUCKTARD UNSEEN COS YOU CAN’T POST FACTS’, then don’t post here at all.
I don’t want to be mean about this, but I have to because you two, and a few others, are just wrong. So once again, stop. Move on, and don’t say anything else about it. Post your opinions, and then back them up. Stop insuting each other, and get back on topic.
And the president of nintendo said this which i think you should all see
"But as importantly, even within these genres, we have reduced the ???environments??? we use. The racing tracks .. the sound tracks .. the bosses .. the heroes .. are starting to look more and more alike. Consider Tiger Woods Golf and Mario Golf???each a successful franchise, but using two different looks for the same genre. Such variety is becoming harder and harder to find. We are even getting ???smaller??? in how we define progress. Making games look more photorealistic is not the only means of improving the game experience. I know, on this point, I risk being misunderstood. So remember, I am a man who once programmed a baseball game with no baseball players. If anyone appreciates graphics, it???s me! But my point is that this is just one path to improved games. We need to find others. ???Improvement??? has more than one definition."
And as for saying that FFVII’s in-game graphics are better because they’re 3d and you can see more of the characters, that is complete and total crap. The graphics in FFVII were eye-popping at the time just because it was something new. However, age has been far kinder to the later 2D FFs and other 2D top-down rpgs. That simple fact alone should be enough to dismiss what you’ve said.
FFVII’s 3D graphics have not aged well largely due to the fact that the quality was inconsistent. The design and detail on the models varied wildly from one mode of play to the next–movement within areas, movement on the world map, and battle–and the level of detail on all except battle screens was laughable. The inconsistent graphical quality certainly detracts from the overall experience.
Meanwhile, the 2D top-down perspective games from that era typically feature a consistent level of detail between environment and sprites. The level of detail on the sprites of such games was clearly superior to that of the 3D characters in FFVII. What difference does it really make if you can see more of the characters when the characters you see less of look better?
and with your last statement you made in blood omen game screenshots and seeing people play it i had a really hard time telling the character apart from the backround. In battle mode the characters were pretty well detailed in FF7. And they may not be so detailed in the other modes but hey i would much rather have a clearer smoother easier to recognize less detailed character that is easy to destinguish from the backround then a pixelated mess like blood omen.
Finally graphics dont make a great game, its storyline, characters, gameplay, and overall funness do which FF7 was great on all of these which i have explained why enough times in the past so I’m not gonna go into detail with it, if you wanna see it to get your mind refreshed than go back a couple pages.
Whether you’re right or wrong, this is totally useless to post. I agree that graphics don’t make a great game; I think graphics have NOTHING to do with its quality, but I’m a bit radical in that respect. Anyway, all you just said was that you already won the debate. I’m not flaming you for posting bad stuff here, but you definitely did not singlehandedly win this debate, and considering the amount of support you’ve gotten, there’s still much left to be discussed. Saying that there’s nothing left to debate is much different from saying that one issue brought up has already been addressed. Only use the "I already posted on that" argument in reference to a specific issue, not to all of the general areas of the game.
I think that makes it fun.
udontknowenglishgrammar
^ That should be your screen name.
It’s about damn time this thread got back on the topic of insulting people who jump in without knowing what the thread is even about.
1) The main character isn’t even a real person
2) The main enemy isn’t even Alive
3) The Most Favorite character dies before the end of the first disc.
These three points make the main plot of this game the best game ever made.
1) The main character isn’t even a real person
2) The main enemy isn’t even Alive
3) The Most Favorite character dies before the end of the first disc.
These three points make the main plot of this game the best game ever made.
More fresh meat.
Ok, so you have expressed your opinion that these three points make it the best game ever. I really can’t counter this yet, because you have yet to explain why.
1) The main character isn’t even a real person
2) The main enemy isn’t even Alive
3) The Most Favorite character dies before the end of the first disc.
These three points make the main plot of this game the best game ever made.
Ummmm…. The main character IS a real person, the main enemy IS alive, and Aeris’s death IS the end of the first disc. Also, none of those would really make it the best game ever even if they were true. Now, in FFX, the main character isn’t a real person, but I thought he was irritating anyway. I don’t know where you got the idea that Sephiroth wasn’t alive, seeing as how he summoned meteor when Cloud gave his body the black materia. Really now, at least try to elaborate a little bit more.
hes right. the main character is a real person only he was experimented on, but sephiroth isnt rly alive. hes kind of an undead dude.
But it’s so funny!
ff7 is not necessarily a good game its all a matter of opinion.
WTF MATAR OF OPINION?!!!?!??! U R A FAGOT DUDE SARIOUSLY!11!!!!! WTF U KNOW ITS TEH BST GAME BUT O WATE U LIEK KUJA LOL TAHT GUY IS A FUKIN QUER NO WONDER U HIED BHIND TAHT STUPID OPINION ARGUMENT UR JUST A BITCH!11!!!1!1!!
WTF U GUYS ARE FAGZ
How funny I was thinking the exact same thing.
FINALFANTASY7 IS TEH BST CAUSE OF DA COL CHARACTERS DA MATERIAE SYSTEM IS AASY 2 UNDERSTAND CLOUD IS JUST AEWSOMA AND NOT 2 MANTION ITS ANIEM!11!1111!1!!11!1 WTF I MEAN COM3 ON ANIEM IS AEWSOME LIEK INUYASHA AND TRIGUN NOT LIEK COWBOY BBOP THOUGH1!!! LOL TAHT SHOW IS BORNG LIEK FINALFANTASY81!1!!1
ANYWAY FINALFANTASY7 IS TEH BST GME WHOAVAR DOESNT THINK IT IS IS A FAGOT STUPID AND SHUD B SHOT ON SIGHT1!!1!11
Oh yeah, Inyuasha and all other anime is actually kind of gay. It is shitty animation with an out there story line that doesnt make sense…
gasp and he managed to mangle the english language in caps
ALL OTHER FF = THE WORST
It’s flaming time.
http://ssshotaru.homestead.com/files/aolertranslator.html <— how to sound like an FF7 fan.
Anyway, had fun, good game, it was on like donkey kong. now it’s Game Over, and I’m out of tokens.
Altho he has a point, in my opion..
FFVII was the best of all other FF’s,
but i wouldn’t say that the rest are all crap, there all indivuail with gd stories and charcters…
I’ve cleared FFVII over 20 times and each of the others at least 3 times..
I’m thinking of playing FFVII again actually..
Anyway i believe FFVII was the best as it was my first taste of the FF world’s.
I even got my name from it…
Cloud was the Saviour of the game,
Sephiroth was the on winged Angel…
I’m glad that you found my excrement amusing.
FFVII was the best of all other FF’s,
but i wouldn’t say that the rest are all crap, there all indivuail with gd stories and charcters…
I’ve cleared FFVII over 20 times and each of the others at least 3 times..
I’m thinking of playing FFVII again actually..
Anyway i believe FFVII was the best as it was my first taste of the FF world’s.
I even got my name from it…
Cloud was the Saviour of the game,
Sephiroth was the on winged Angel…
that is a hell of a lot of gamepaly time seriously.
hehe tnx man…
it’s amazing the amount things you can do when you never sleep…
You think FFVII was the best because it was your first FF game? That’s all the reason you can give? Go home, little boy. I’ll forgive you this one stupidity, but keep up like this and you’ll get the same treatment as all the other pathetic fanboys who give flimsy, infantile answers.
now why didnt i think of that…
lol…yeah…as long as it was acting…its all good and fun…i likey the new translator though…its very interesting 😀
No need to get nasty man,
I just couldn’t be bothered right now detailing the story about Cloud and Sephiroth, esp how Cloud kills the orignal Sephiroth…
I’m just to lazy and might do it later…
But really I like FFVII coz of it’s kick ass baddie..
Anyway. Guys I am going to tell you a secret that NO ONE KNOWS…
(shhh looks around…)
FF7 Was NEVER completed.
It’s true.
Well I posted this in my huge post, which I will <A HREF="http://forums.ffshrine.org/showpost.php?p=276908&postcount=197">gladly</A> post again.
I say every FFVII fan read that, including the unfinished link, and then get back to me.
I’ll return your call in no time!
oh my, here I go again.
A game cannot claim greatness; it has to earn it by itself by actually being a great game. The only way I would ever admit that it ‘claimed’ greatness is the fact that so many people first got their taste of Final Fantasy through this very game, meaning the game’s apparent greatness wasn’t claimed at all. It was just given out on a silver platter.
adn be considered to be one of the greatest games of all time
Dude, you could technically say that any game ever made could be considered the greatest game ever made. It would make a lot of sense if you said that it is arguably the greatest game ever made, but only if you were capable of bringing facts to the table, which has yet to occur.
Prak i said u and a bunch of other people meaning not only you.
Secondly there are many people who consider FF7 to be the greatest game of all time and it wasnt their first FF game. for example me I think FF7 is a great game and is one of the greatest games of all time and my first FF was FF8 and before I played FF7 I played 1-6 and there are many other people I know like that so dont push that fact becuase its not as true as you think.
Finally, the game is considered great by the majority of the poeple who played it, so yes your are right when u say any game is great in the eyes of one person but that doesnt make it a great game, but in this case the majority of its players consider it to be one of the greatest games ever madeso therefore it can be considered great in the eyes of the majority.
Like?
Shame about the piss-poor execution.
Raising & Racing Chocobos in previous FFs you could only find them and ride them,
That’s hardly something that makes FFVII really special, especially since it was so frustrating. Besides, many games have things that are exclusive to them. Does that make every single one of them a great game?
The materia system before it was a variation of the job system which was getting old,
That’s purely a matter of opinion. Many of us have stated that we prefer for characters to have a very clear role in combat.
The obvious one is that its 3-D.
As previously stated, that is a result of new hardware capabilities. Other games were already doing the 3D thing, so there’s really nothing there to brag about.
Not only that, but graphics really don’t have anything to do with how good a game is. The only means for comparison of graphics is to compare it to games released around the same time, in which case FFVII does not rise above the rest.
Also about hardware capabilities, I wish Square had done more with the music. The brass in the midi they used really sucked, and Uematsu did a really good job with FFVII. Actually, FFVI had better midi quality than FFVII. If FFVII had used better sound for its music, it would have been incredible. The music was still very good, but the sound quality was definitely sub-par. So you see, FFVII can only be rated for its graphics and other use of hardware if you compare it to what the system was fully capable of, and FFVII did not live up to its full potential in terms of video and sound quality.
I was hoping you’d mention that. The job system was only used in two Final Fantasy games, both of which were not released outside of Japan before Final Fantasy VII was released. So, even if you imported the Final Fantasies in order, you still had not seen the Job system since Final Fantasy V. You can hardly consider that as "getting old".
Also, there is very little difference between the Materia system and the Esper system. In fact, the only differences at all, is that once a spell is mastered in FFVI the character retains that spell forever, and that you did not get special attack modes from Materia. However, that’s what relics were for. So, basically, the Materia system was exactly the same as the Esper/relic system from FFVI. Not innovative, just a bastardized version of a previous system.
With Graphics, FF7’s were a major improvment from previous Final Fantasies and were still amazing for their time maybe not the best but were still amazing. But I’ve said this multiple times Graphics don’t make a game great. Instead it’s gameplay, storyline, how fun the game is, and the emotional feeling the player expeirences from playing the game that make it great, FF7 has all of these and is incredible with all of them.
Also, your little monologue on character roles was complete bullshit. Any idiot realizes that the differences aren’t great enough to definitively restrict any character’s role.
Well the character Roles are defined you can just customize the roles to your personal battle style but you still have some restrictions with different characters, for example Aeris is the best character to have use magic if you equip here with magics the spells do more damage most of the time depending on her level while she does pitiful physical damage becuase her role is not to use physical attacks(this information come directly from the guidebook).
Holy shit! You guys never stop! Saying it repeatedly will NEVER make it true. We’ve asskicked that very same argument many times before.
Well the character Roles are defined you can just customize the roles to your personal battle style but you still have some restrictions with different characters, for example Aeris is the best character to have use magic if you equip here with magics the spells do more damage most of the time depending on her level while she does pitiful physical damage becuase her role is not to use physical attacks(this information come directly from the guidebook).
Aeris is the single exception, and that was probably because she was cannon fodder anyway. All other characters were capable of pretty similar physical attacks and magic.
That’s a load of BS, pal. First of all, "I forgot about 6 and 4" doesn’t cover all of the Final Fantasies that you’ve forgotten. FF1, FF3 (I believe 2 was the first job system, though I COULD be wrong), and FFMQ. As for the Materia system, I think the post I just made not more than a few hours ago shows that there isn’t anything unique about it. It is exactly like the Esper/relic system of FFVI, so no more talk about it being innovative or unique, please.
so the characters do have a clear and specific role in battle this time though you can choose the role they have but not entirely becuase some of the characters stats are set so that they are more aimed towards using magic or their limit breaks instead of physical damage(Ex: Aeris,Vincent) while others were geared more towards physical damage (Ex: Cloud, Cid) while others were more geared towards both (Ex: Tifa, RedXIII) so the characters are still unique and have defined roles in battle you can just customize it to your personal battle style.
Name one character that isn???t capable of doing 9999 damage with a normal attack or with magic. Go ahead, I’ll wait.
Cloud:
Over time cloud proves to be a great asset, becuase his powerful sword attacks and limit breaks are nearly unmatched. You’ll want to keep Cloud in your front line most of the time to take full advantage of his damaging strong physical attacks and limit breaks. His magic skills are decent and solid but not nearly as good as Aeris’ so don’t overload him with materia.
Barret:
Although he may not look it, Barret is one of the most versatile characters in the game. Unlike most he has weapons for close and long range combat, which enables him to perform well in either rank. You’ll want to keep Barret in the back rank most of the time. This enables him cause heavy damage without taking an equal amount in return. Avoid loading Barret up with Materia that reduces his hit points and strength. You may want to use Barret as a damage magnet later, and if so he’ll need to be as strong as possible.
Tifa:
When Fighting Tifa lets her fists do the talking. Her attacks are generally weaker than Cloud’s and Barret’s but from early on her chain Limit Breaks are by far the best thing going. Tifa should always be a frontline fighter, but may have trouble contributing during some boss fights. Like Cloud, Tifa is exceptional with magic but you should still avoid loading her up with materia.
Aeris:
Aeris is the closest character Final Fantasy VII has to a dedicated magic user. Her physical attacks are fairly weak, but she possesses great skill and power with Materia and its various forms, especially in magic. Due to this odd balance, you should put her in you back line and load her down with Materia. Let Aeris devote her energies to spell casting while her teammates concentrate on inflicting physical damage. This also takes advantage of her defensive-based Limit Breaks.
Red XIII:
Red XIII is strong at both Physical and Magical combat. His sharp teeth and claws work well with his close-range fighting style, however this limits his combat options and forces him to take a spot on the front line. There is a long range weapon for Red XIII but it lacks Materia slots and forces him to act as a fighter. Red XIII makes a solid strong magic user when loaded down with Materia, but performs best with a more balanced approach. It’s best to always take advantage of his physical strength as well as his startling intellect and magic abilities.
Cid:
With his lance in hand, Cid is always prepared for battle. His fighting skills are top-notch and come in handy throughout most of the game. His Limit Breaks are very handy when fighting enemies becuase they all cause direct damage rather than affecting status ailments or healing the party. Cid’s stats are pretty average all the way around, which can help or hinder his performance depending on how well he is equipped.
Yuffie:
Yuffie isn’t one of the strongest team members, but her Limit Breaks are powerful. Her weapons enable her to attack from a distance without penalty. Keep her in the backline and outfit her with plenty of Materia. Although this tactic will lower her HP she will be safe in the backline while still being able to deal plently of physical damage and use plenty of magic.
Cait Sith:
Cait Sith isn’t much of a fighter but his Mog relies on close range attacks. His true strength resides in his 2 limit breaks. Although these limit breaks are unpredictable, they can deal some serious damage even at the lowest levels. Cait Sith can also take quite a beating so keep him in the frontline.
Vincent:
Vincent is a strong fighter, much like Barret. He is also quite competent with Materia similar to Aeris but not as much making it a good idea to load him up and put him in the back line. His Limit Breaks are also powerful but unpredictable.
So the roles are
Cloud: Warrior
Barret: Long Range Figher
Tifa: Black Belt
Aeris: Black and White Mage
Red XIII: Mage and Warrior
Cid: Fighter
Yuffie: Ninja, Thief, Mage.
Cait Sith: BodyGuard
Vincent: Long Range Fighter, Strong Mage
Finally Just becuase you keep saying the storyline sucks doesn’t make that true either and FF1 was the job system u just couldn’t change the jobs once you chose them and FF3 you started as onion kids and then chose JOBS for them and they leveled up into them and you could change JOBS at anytime.
And also Tifa doesn’t do 9999 damage at lvl 99.
Saying the storyline sucks doesn’t make it true, but we back up what we say. Look at all the times we’ve pointed out its hideously glaring flaws, discrepancies, contradictions, etc. over the course of these threads.
And quoting what I did out of the guide book just proves that the characters DO have specific roles and I did address the argument you made of how Aeris was the only one who had a role in the game by showing you all the other roles. the other arguments were posted while I was writing my reply so I went back and responded to them.
If you take the time to level her up she is. She has just as much potential to do 9999 damage as every other character, and in the end that???s really all we can argue over because the Aeris in my game may be completely different from the Aeris in your game.
FF1 was the job system u just couldn’t change the jobs once you chose them and FF3 you started as onion kids and then chose JOBS for them and they leveled up into them and you could change JOBS at anytime.
By admitting that FFIV isn’t the job system you also admit that FFI isn’t as well. Besides, the "Job System" is characterized by having a list of possible "jobs" to select from, and then having the ability to switch among those jobs, mixing and matching abilities as you do so. Though you see aspects of FFI in the job system, FFI is not and example of the job system.
Also, I said that I thought FFII was the first, turns out it was FFIII, it still doesn’t change the fact that only two Final Fantasies had a job system before FFVII.
And also Tifa doesn’t do 9999 damage at lvl 99.
She did for me. In fact, all my characters did. Like I said to unseen, the only aspect of this argument we can actually debate is the character???s potential. As shown, your Tifa is different than my Tifa, but when the game started each had the potential to be doing 9999 damage in both physical and magical attacks by the end of the game. The only time a character won’t is if you NEVER use them, due to the fact you are able to turn any character into whatever type of fighter you want. The fact that your Tifa was incapable of doing 9999 just goes to show you that you can beat the game with using three characters the whole way through, which isn’t a the mark of a good game.
As for quoting the manual, the No Child Left Behind act is supposed to improve the education system in America. That doesn’t mean that, merely because it says it on paper, that it had a resounding positive impact. On that same note, just because the guidebook says that characters are suited for something, does not make it undeniably true.
Well, actually each character has a set amt of points that limit them from progressing in an area all that much. That is what the purpose of the "sources" are…to break past these limits…a lvl 99 aeris with her ultimate weapon will not do 9999 damage…unless you giver her about 100 power sources…which is impossible to obtain at that point in the game
And if your gonna say that the guide book is wrong with the characters well everyone is gonna disagree with you becuase we all know that barret sux with magic and Aeris rocks with is an so on and so forth.
But there is still the potential to obtain it, from what you’ve said. Even if it isn’t she’s the only flaw, and Prak mentioned that already. That makes you brining it up 1) un-needed because it was already given and 2) a waste of your time because you just admitted that it would be possible if she did not die. The fact that she does die doesn’t matter, because you basically said she would be able to under normal circumstances.
My Tifa is maxed out in stats and only does 9999 when her limit break bar is near full any other time she does less becuase the damage her strongest and most powerful weapon does depends on her limit break bar.
I fail to see how that matters when I just said the Tifa in my game is capable of 9999 damage. I also explained why it doesn’t matter, so you’re beating a dead horse right now.
And if your gonna say that the guide book is wrong with the characters well everyone is gonna disagree with you becuase we all know that barret sux with magic and Aeris rocks with is an so on and so forth.
The guidebook is just that, a guide. It doesn’t explain every minute aspect of the game. It has no bearing on the arguments we have made at all because it saying "Cloud is a fighter" doesn’t make anything we have said less true.
woot woot no comment from the opposition woot woot
My life doesn’t revolve around this thread, nor does Prak’s. Just because we don’t reply by the time you’d like us to doesn’t mean we don’t have anything to say. Hasn’t that been explained to you about ten times already?
now the guidebook info is well researched and tested to be sure it is true and u can find stat charts and that online and in the guide book that prove the character roles. And the guidebook I got the info from is the offical one meaning square approved of it and knew there were no lies in it. The characters do have specific roles in battle the Materia system just allows you to alter them slightly to accomidate your own personal fighting style which isn’t a bad thing but a good thing you and prak just don’t want to admit it becuase it kills one of your points.
Secondly you said give me a character that isn’t capable of doing 9999 with a normal attack or magic and Tifa can’t except for a breif time period before her limit break bar is full and that is only with critical hits, now Aeris is not able to do that much damage becuase even if u get her to lvl 99 (which is possible before she dies) she still does not do that much damage and you said she could under normal circumstances well this is normal circumstances and she is supposed to die under normal circumstances its not like u did something to make her die so for her to get the unlimited power sources and get tons of strength and do 9999 damage wouldnt be under normal circumstances but under ABNORMAL circumstances becuase she is not supposed to be at that point in the game and would have had to be put back in through Gameshark therefore making it not normal. and before you say but with magic she could all the spells that do that much damage can’t be aquired until AFTER her death. So there is no normal way for Aeris to do 9999 damage.
now the guidebook info is well researched and tested to be sure it is true
wtf. The guidebook was written by Squaresoft according to their own needs. It’s more like an extension of the packaging than a reliable information source. If you really want to try making a point, then post stat charts. That won’t work well for you, I’m sure, but it would at least demonstrate a reasonably competent effort.
and u can find stat charts and that online and in the guide book that prove the character roles.
Prove it. Post the stuff you’re saying is out there. If you want to convince us (and everyone else) that you’re doing more than talking out your ass, then put this stuff up here for us to see. We’re not going to waste our valuable time trying to dig it up for ourselves.
And the guidebook I got the info from is the offical one meaning square approved of it and knew there were no lies in it.
Or they approved the lies/half-truths. Proper misleading wording can sell a person on something far more easily than the truth, in most cases.
The characters do have specific roles in battle the Materia system just allows you to alter them slightly to accomidate your own personal fighting style which isn’t a bad thing but a good thing you and prak just don’t want to admit it becuase it kills one of your points.
So you’re going to say the same thing I’ve been disproving and try to make it a stronger point by saying that I just don’t want to admit it? Very weak. Run home to mommy.
Secondly you said give me a character that isn’t capable of doing 9999 with a normal attack or magic and Tifa can’t except for a breif time period before her limit break bar is full and that is only with critical hits,
And RM showed how Tifa IS capable of doing 9999. Point null.
now Aeris is not able to do that much damage becuase even if u get her to lvl 99 (which is possible before she dies) she still does not do that much damage and you said she could under normal circumstances well this is normal circumstances and she is supposed to die under normal circumstances its not like u did something to make her die so for her to get the unlimited power sources and get tons of strength and do 9999 damage wouldnt be under normal circumstances but under ABNORMAL circumstances becuase she is not supposed to be at that point in the game and would have had to be put back in through Gameshark therefore making it not normal. and before you say but with magic she could all the spells that do that much damage can’t be aquired until AFTER her death. So there is no normal way for Aeris to do 9999 damage.
We already covered all this, except for your inane rant on normal and abnormal circumstances, which means nothing in the context of the argument you were trying to present. That was a total waste of keystrokes.
Well then if that is true I think they would know the roles of the characters better than you since they were the ones who created the characters.
Go start a new game prak and when you meet Aeris put her in the front line and give her no materia then put cloud in the backline and load him down with materia and you’ll discover it wont work becuase Cloud doesn’t have a lot of MP and loading him down with materia lowers his HP and strength tremendously and also lowers his other stats so he will do bad physical damage, wont last long in battle and his magic wont do nearly as much damage as his sword will Aeris will do pathetic physical damage and wont last long either becuase she has low HP and she will take a major beating in the front line, While if you did the exact opposite Cloud would do good damage with his sword, and have enough HP and strength to survive in the front. Aeris will have magic to use to deal decent damage and she will be safe in the back so both will be able to kill enemies and survive.
Now my "rant" with normality was in context if you read back a bit becuase RM was saying that its a Normal circumstance to have Aeris not die and that is not true it is normal to have her die and abnormal to have her not die so she never has the potential to do 9999 damage with a normal attack.
Now Tifa is only capable of doing 9999 damage for a breif period of time when her limit break bar is almost full and that is only with critical hits, this is because the amount of damage she does is linked with her limit break bar when using her most powerful weapon. When the bar is empty she does pathetic damage while when its full she does godly damage but still doesn’t do 9999 with a critical hit. So she is capable of it but you missed the original question he asked and that was if it was possible with a NORMAL ATTACK not a CRITICAL HIT!
Also, you forget that while Cloud deals less damage in the back row, he can also take more. It balances out. As for Aeris, I already conceded that she is the single character that isn’t equipped to perform all aspects of combat.
Your normality rant is about something we all know and also happens to be useless to the debate, due to its very nature.
You still didn’t address RM’s point. You just said the same thing again.
Now also I only qouted that much becuase that was the only info I needed to prove that point that the creators know the character roles and it is a reliable source for information. From what your saying it would be like saying Edison knew nothing about the light bulb or how it worked and just said a bunch of BS about it while some joe shmo knew everything about it. The Creator of something knows how their creation works Prak, so squaresoft knows their characters battle roles and it is safe to say they printed the truth in the guide book. Now I would believe that it was all lies if I myself witnessed it through expeirence but playing the game multiple times and using the characters in different ways has proven to me the accuracy of the guide book which is pretty much right on the dot, And almost everyone else who has played the game knows that this is true.
Now Cloud will take less damage in the back row while Aeris is alive becuase she will take the major beating. Once she dies however, Cloud is a sitting duck and will be taken down quickly.
Now My Normality "rant" is useful becuase it proves that RM was wrong by stating that it would be a normal situation to have Aeris alive after disc 1. And with the Tifa thing, I did address RM’s point becuase he said all characters are able to do 9999 damage at lvl 99 with best weapons using a ,keyword, Normal attack. I have simply stated that it is only possible with a critical hit when her limit break bar is full (which is something any serious ff7 player would pick up on) which is not a normal battle situation.
Congratulations on shattering your credibility. Who do you expect to take you seriously after you basically admit to distorting what I’ve said? At least I invite you to clarify if I misunderstand something and I quote you completely.
Now also I only qouted that much becuase that was the only info I needed to prove that point that the creators know the character roles and it is a reliable source for information. From what your saying it would be like saying Edison knew nothing about the light bulb or how it worked and just said a bunch of BS about it while some joe shmo knew everything about it. The Creator of something knows how their creation works Prak, so squaresoft knows their characters battle roles and it is safe to say they printed the truth in the guide book.
Edison wasn’t selling light bulbs. He just made them. Square’s top concern was selling FFVII, however. Thus, your example (upon which your entire argument seems to be built) is meaningless.
Now I would believe that it was all lies if I myself witnessed it through expeirence but playing the game multiple times and using the characters in different ways has proven to me the accuracy of the guide book which is pretty much right on the dot, And almost everyone else who has played the game knows that this is true.
People once knew that the earth was flat, didn’t they? The "everyone knows it’s true" argument holds no weight. When I played through the game, I mostly used Cloud as a spellcaster. Guess what! His spells were stronger at the end of the game than RedXIII’s, who was doing 9999 damage on physical attacks.
Now Cloud will take less damage in the back row while Aeris is alive becuase she will take the major beating. Once she dies however, Cloud is a sitting duck and will be taken down quickly.
WTF are you going on about? Are you trying to say that when Aeris dies, people in the back row suddenly take normal damage?
Now My Normality "rant" is useful becuase it proves that RM was wrong by stating that it would be a normal situation to have Aeris alive after disc 1.
Did he say that? I doubt that, but I’ll look to be sure.
EDIT: He said that YOU practically said it was normal. Stop twisting what people say, creep. At least we’re playing fair, if a bit rough.
And with the Tifa thing, I did address RM’s point becuase he said all characters are able to do 9999 damage at lvl 99 with best weapons using a ,keyword, Normal attack. I have simply stated that it is only possible with a critical hit when her limit break bar is full (which is something any serious ff7 player would pick up on) which is not a normal battle situation.
And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks. What part of that did you not understand?
Now my argument with the light bulb was that the creators know all the details of their creation and to keep thier credibilty they tell the truth about it. Now my argument was not everyone says it so therefore it is true it was that through experience I have found the guide book to be true and so have other people.
Now I did not say it was a normal circumstance for Aeris to be alive after disc 1. Unseen said she can’t do 9999 damage and the only possible way would be with unlimited power sources which can’t be aquired until after her death, RM then said we said it was possible under normal circumstances which we did not we said it would be possible if it was under abnormal circumstances where she would not die which he was claiming was normal. I am not twisting what people say Prak, I am just using it to my advantage.
Now you said this "And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks." Now what i was saying his that using her strongest weapon this is not possible unless her Limit bar is almost full since her attack damage is based off of the Limit bar.
Now when people are in the back row yes they do take less damage but they are also attacked less becuase the front row people are the ones taking the beating. when the front row dies the back row then becomes the main target.
I’d just like to note, about light bulbs, Edison didn’t make the ones we have today. He may have produced it, but when put into practice it was found that he didn’t know every little detail about it. On that same note, just because Square did the programming it doesn’t mean they are able to predict how the game will ultimately be played.
But they still know what their characters are designed to do best at.
That’s not what I meant by "normal circumstances". Had you read what I said, you would have realized I defined it in terms of "had she not died". Either you are twisting what I said, or you’re unable to comprehend the meaning behind what I said.
Now you said this "And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks." Now what i was saying his that using her strongest weapon this is not possible unless her Limit bar is almost full since her attack damage is based off of the Limit bar.
And I’m saying it is because I had her do it. You keep saying the same thing over and over, hoping we’ll not notice. Well, either that or you don’t even realize what we’re actually saying.
But they still know what their characters are designed to do best at.
No, they know what they intended it to do, just like Edison knows what he designed the filament in his light bulb to do. However, the light bulb has changed since it was first created, still serving the same basic purpose (lighting an area), but not in the same way. The same holds true with the characters. They still serve the original base purpose (in their case going through Final Fantasy VII), but the way they do so has (or can) changed.
Taking only part of it and using it out of context is distortion.
Now I did not say it was a normal circumstance for Aeris to be alive after disc 1. Unseen said she can’t do 9999 damage and the only possible way would be with unlimited power sources which can’t be aquired until after her death, RM then said we said it was possible under normal circumstances which we did not we said it would be possible if it was under abnormal circumstances where she would not die which he was claiming was normal. I am not twisting what people say Prak, I am just using it to my advantage.
That only works when your distortions aren’t caught, I’m afraid.
Now you said this "And he said that his Tifa did 9999 on normal attacks." Now what i was saying his that using her strongest weapon this is not possible unless her Limit bar is almost full since her attack damage is based off of the Limit bar.
Correction: Her ultimate weapon’s damage is based on the limit bar. What do you suppose would happen if you used a more consistent weapon? And what do you think the effect of a few power sources would be?
Now when people are in the back row yes they do take less damage but they are also attacked less becuase the front row people are the ones taking the beating. when the front row dies the back row then becomes the main target.
I never mentioned anyone in the front row. I was making a point about how Cloud’s damage would come out to be about the same whether he was in front or back because he could survive a fight longer, even if he only dealt half as much.
RM by saying "Aeris’ death is irrelevant becuase under normal circumstances she would be able to" you are saying it is a normal thing for her not to die which is not true.
Now Prak you may not have mentioned no one being in the front row but with the example I made and we are using I said Aeris is in the front row. Also in the example I said Cloud would be loaded with materia therefore significantly lowering his HP therefore he would not last as long as had you not loaded him with materia. So Aeris would die becuase she automatically has low HP and wouldn’t be able to do a good amount of damage and Cloud would then be the main target after Aeris would be taken out and with his decreased HP he would go down quickly.
And fine I give up with the Tifa thing I see now that it can be possible to do 9999.
Now with the Roles of the characters. They have a base role that is what they perform best at which square mentions in the guidebook. But you don’t have to follow that if you don’t want to and customize the roles to your own personal style. That is the beauty of the Materia System. The characters have predefined battle role that they work best with but you can give them your own roles and they will still work almost as well as their predefined roles. The Characters have roles in battle, You just have the power this time to either use their predefined ones or choose your own roles for them. Almost all the other Final Fantasies use this idea and you are not saying they sucked now are you? If this idea sucked so much then why would Squaresoft continue to use it?
By not quoting the whole thing and responding like the rest of the sentence didn’t exist, its meaning was changed. You distorted it.
Now Prak you may not have mentioned no one being in the front row but with the example I made and we are using I said Aeris is in the front row.
We are not using the same example though. Similar perhaps, but not the same. Anyway, the part about Aeris has already been conceded, so you’re beating a dead horse with that.
Also in the example I said Cloud would be loaded with materia therefore significantly lowering his HP therefore he would not last as long as had you not loaded him with materia.
If Cloud was loaded with materia, he would be more of a spellcaster than a damage dealer, so he would hit harder that way, further balancing the differences in tactics.
Now with the Roles of the characters. They have a base role that is what they perform best at which square mentions in the guidebook. But you don’t have to follow that if you don’t want to and customize the roles to your own personal style. That is the beauty of the Materia System.
Or the bane, depending on your point of view. After all, I’ve always said the universal abilities of the characters were a drawback.
The characters have predefined battle role that they work best with but you can give them your own roles and they will still work almost as well as their predefined roles.
In other words, you’re doing a complete about face and trying to make it seem like this was your point all along…
The Characters have roles in battle, You just have the power this time to either use their predefined ones or choose your own roles for them. Almost all the other Final Fantasies use this idea and you are not saying they sucked now are you?
FFVIII carbon copied the system and I said it sucked. FFX made you work for each new ability instead of making them all interchangable like some kind of deranged Mr. Potato Head, so I didn’t mind it.
If this idea sucked so much then why would Squaresoft continue to use it?
Stupidity.
Secondly our original point was that the materia system allowed you to choose a role for your characters and then you guys came back and said then you guys said there weren’t any predefined roles so it sucked so I proved that there were predefined roles just this time you have the choice to not follow them. The Materia System is a mix of the two battle role systems used in the previous Final Fantasies. So it is pretty much a best of both worlds system. It has the predefined roles for a guide and something to work with if you don’t like picking roles for people yet it also gives the power of choice from the job system incase you don’t like a certain characters predefined role. Now the reason Squaresoft continues to use this idea is becuase it was a good idea, it works well, and people love it, not becuase of stupidity Prak. You guys just say that becuase you can’t come up with a better argument and you know the truth is becuase it is a good thing and don’t want to admit it becuase it will kill your arguments and make you look bad.
Now Prak there is a difference between taking things out of context and distorting. I did not change what you said in any way I just used what I needed which you have done to me in past multiple times and when I bitched about it you denied it and called me names and that. Atleast I have the balls to admit I took something out of context unlike you, you’re just mad becuase now it’s happening to you, well you know what Prak, POO HOO Go cry to mommy and have her kiss it to make it better!! I am not changing your words, I’m just using them against you which you have done multiple times in the past so just suck it up and move on.
Her death is abnormal because a playable character generally does not die. However, that doesn’t matter because I defined my terminology. Just because you refuse to acknowledge how I defined it does not change my overall point that if she did not die she would be exactly like every other character. Instead of addressing this you are trying to steer the debate into a direction that it becomes a battle of semantics rather than a debate about the real issue.
They have a base role that is what they perform best at which square mentions in the guidebook. But you don’t have to follow that if you don’t want to and customize the roles to your own personal style. That is the beauty of the Materia System. The characters have predefined battle role that they work best with but you can give them your own roles and they will still work almost as well as their predefined roles. The Characters have roles in battle, You just have the power this time to either use their predefined ones or choose your own roles for them.
They do not have pre-defined roles. We have firmly established that they do not have pre-defined roles and that the guidebook saying so has no relevance to the debate, because it has been proven that the guidebook is not always correct. Again, saying the same thing over and over again does not make it any more or less true than it was the first time it was said.
Almost all the other Final Fantasies use this idea and you are not saying they sucked now are you? If this idea sucked so much then why would Squaresoft continue to use it?
First of all, that is not true in the least. FFI, FFII, FFIV, FFVI, FFMQ, FFIX, FFX, and FFXI all have pretty clearly defined roles for the characters. The only two I can think of that are open to having about the same versatility no matter what character you use are FFVII and FFVIII, along with the two Final Fantasies that utilized the job system. In all the others, each character has a pretty distinct role in the party during battle. Two to four is hardly "almost all". Also, the reason they re-used the same basic idea again in FFVIII is because it makes it easier for stupid people to beat the game, which will lead to more copies being sold. Finally, how does other games using a concept suddenly make FFVII a better game? That’s like saying; "Vincent van Gogh used the color red when painting, so if I use the color red when painting my work will suddenly be better".
As for "knowing the truth and not wanting to admit it," grow up and learn how to debate, you bratty kid. We mean what we say and we’ve given damn good reasons for it.
Lastly, there is a difference between taking things out of context and distorting and you crossed the line. You did change what I said. By subtracting part of the sentence and only responding to that, you changed its meaning. By changing its meaning, you did change what I said. You offered no retractions and no apologies for it, thus you have completely distorted its meaning.
As for saying you’ve used it against me… Now that I’ve proved the distortion, all you’re doing is bragging about being a lying asshole.
FF1 you had the option to choose the roles you wanted when you choose the characters, FF3 you could change jobs, Same in FF5,7,8,9,10,10-2. Ones in the number series with predefined roles 2,4,6,11. well that 4 out of 12 that have predefined roles. in FF7 there are predefined roles, you just dont have to follow them. You say there arent predefined roles well prove it. And if you say "well my Aeris does 6000 damage on normal attack" Well thats just becuase your not choosing to use the predefined role which is perfectly fine the predefined role is just there to say this is what they are best as but you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to, But if you had your Aeris use magic she would do better, but you don’t have to if you don’t want to, as I’ve have said this is the beauty of this system.
Lastly, there is a difference between taking things out of context and distorting and you crossed the line. You did change what I said. By subtracting part of the sentence and only responding to that, you changed its meaning. By changing its meaning, you did change what I said. You offered no retractions and no apologies for it, thus you have completely distorted its meaning.
Ok you just stated what taking something out of context is. I did not change what you said, it was still your words and I did not change its meaning becuase its meaning was simple becuase it was "Squaresoft makes the guidebooks" and with that I was able to prove a point the rest of the sentence you wrote was just you ranting about how Squaresoft lied in the guide book which I acknowledged in my future response by saying Squaresoft would not lie in a guidebook to keep their credibilty.
Now it may not have had the same affect you intended it to but taking things out of context does that sometimes. Distorting it would mean changing the words and what not which i did not do. All I did was take a small chunk out of your response and use it to my advantage (which YOU have done in the past) I did NOT change what you said in any way. You are just upset becuase you can’t beleive you were actually stupid enough to make that statement knowing it could be used against you.
Are you TRYING to sound ignorant? That is not what I am debating. I am saying that IF SHE HAD NOT DIED SHE WOULD HAVE THE SAME POTENTIAL TO DO 9999 DAMAGE AS EVERY OTHER CHARACTER AND THAT BECAUSE SHE DIED YOU EITHER HAVE TO APPROCH IT FROM THE STAND POINT OF "HAD SHE NOT DIED THIS WOULD BE THE OUTCOME" OR IGNORE HER AS A CHARACTER. I can’t say it any clearer than that, so don’t bother replying to this aspect of the debate again if all you’re going to do is harp on the fact that she died.
FF1 you had the option to choose the roles you wanted when you choose the characters
But once the game started you could not change their roles like you can in FFVII, meaning they each have a distinct role.
FF3 you could change jobs, Same in FF5,7,8,9,10,10-2. Ones in the number series with predefined roles 2,4,6,11. well that 4 out of 12 that have predefined roles.
It would have saved time if you had gone through each individually like you started to with FFI, but I guess I’ll just have to do it for you.
FFII, FFIV, FFVI, and FFXI don’t need to be discussed because you said that they have pre-defined roles, nor do FFIII or FFV because they are a job system. NOTE THAT THE JOB SYSTEM DOES NOT HELP OR HINDER EITHER CASE BECAUSE IT IS UNQUIE IN THE SERIES.That leaves us with FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, and FFX-2. We’re already 50/50, so you still were wrong when you said "almost all". I will not argue about FFVII and FFVIII. FFIX had distinct roles. Specific people used white magic, only one person used black magic, only one person could use blue magic, and there were specific characters that were capable of doing more physical damage than the magic users. This tips the scales to 60/40. FFX has specified roles because of the sphere grid. Unless you use gameshark you’re going to have a really hard time making someone that starts off as a fighter your resident healer, which is not the case in FFVII. We’re now at 70/30 in favor of more games having defined roles. I’ll leave it at that, because I have not played FFX-2, which is why I forgot all about it when I made my original argument. From what I’ve seen it is like the job system, though, which would mean it would need to be discounted. That would bring the grand total to 7 games to 2 in favor of preset roles that you have to adhere to, but because I’m generous I’ll say 7 to 3.
However, you’re still incredibly wrong.
EDIT: Actually, I didn’t even include FFMQ either. That would mean the total is either 8 to 3 or 8 to 2. Either way, you’re argument is even worse than I thought.
in FF7 there are predefined roles, you just dont have to follow them. You say there arent predefined roles well prove it.
We have, we’re still waiting for you to prove otherwise.
And if you say "well my Aeris does 6000 damage on normal attack" Well thats just becuase your not choosing to use the predefined role which is perfectly fine the predefined role is just there to say this is what they are best as but you don’t have to use it if you don’t want to, But if you had your Aeris use magic she would do better, but you don’t have to if you don’t want to, as I’ve have said this is the beauty of this system.
1) You pulled that example out of your ass, and put those words into our mouths. That right there proves you have nothing of value to say.
2) Prove a character is "better" when you use them in the role that the book says you should.
Now with Aeris if you just try to make her beat an enemy with her staff it doesn’t work well while if you make her use magic she does good damage and it works becuase she excels with magic and her predefined role is a MAGE! With Cloud you can make him use magic early on but it doesn’t work well becuase of his low MP while if you use him as a warrior it works well becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! But you can still have him be a mage and have it work decently if you have someone who can be a good warrior to take his place.
Finally Aeris doesn’t have the potential to do 9999 damage becuase whe dies in the end of disc 1 meaning her fullest potential is reached at the end of disc 1 before you can max her stats. Now this is under normal circumstances. Now she does have the potential to do 9999 damage under abnormal circumstances which is what you are talking about becuase then you can use game shark to revive her and now her fullest potential is meet at the end of disc 3 so her stats can be maxed and she can then do 9999 damage but like I said these would be abnormal circumstances.
I don’t know where you get the 12th game from. The ones we are concerned with are FFI, FFII, FFIV, FFVI, FFVII, FFVIII, FFIX, FFX, FFXI, FFMQ, and (because I’m being nice) FFX-2. That’s 11 games. Moving on, you’re wrong about FFIX. It is closer to FFIV than any of the other Final Fantasies. Each character has a set of skills, like in FFIV. They cannot learn every skill, each has a set of their own skills. The only difference is that in FFIX you need to learn them through items.
FFX is different from FFVII because you cannot change back and forth, unless you’ve used gameshark and have unlimited sphears that allow you to change the position of where your character’s icon is on the gird. Your argument is weak at best.
In FFI character roles are set in stone. Cloud is a "fighter" at the beginning of the game, but you can make him use any magic he wants. You can never make a non-magic using character in FFI use magic. Again, your point makes little to no sense.
I said I would let you have FFX-2, even though it seems to fall under the job system (which would nullify it), so the count still stands at 8 to 3, in favor of games that have set roles.
EDIT: By the way, you have yet to explain why it matters.
Now with Aeris if you just try to make her beat an enemy with her staff it doesn’t work well while if you make her use magic she does good damage and it works becuase she excels with magic and her predefined role is a MAGE! With Cloud you can make him use magic early on but it doesn’t work well becuase of his low MP while if you use him as a warrior it works well becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! But you can still have him be a mage and have it work decently if you have someone who can be a good warrior to take his place.
You basically just admitted that you’re wrong by saying you can switch Cloud’s role.
Finally Aeris doesn’t have the potential to do 9999 damage becuase whe dies in the end of disc 1 meaning her fullest potential is reached at the end of disc 1 before you can max her stats. Now this is under normal circumstances. Now she does have the potential to do 9999 damage under abnormal circumstances which is what you are talking about becuase then you can use game shark to revive her and now her fullest potential is meet at the end of disc 3 so her stats can be maxed and she can then do 9999 damage but like I said these would be abnormal circumstances.
You missed my whole point. I made it as clear as I could, and yet you still missed it. Go back, read the bold, and try again because you basically just agreed with me. Do you even know what you???re trying to prove or disprove?
In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.
With FF1 yes after you choose them they are set in stone but you still have the ability to choose them unlike 4 and 6 where they are automatically set and you can’t do a thing about it.
Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do. If they had absolutly no predefined roles then if you made Cloud a white mage and Aeris a warrior then Aeris’ limit break should become Braver and Cloud’s should become healing wind, But they don’t, Cloud’s is still Braver (a warrior Limit Break) becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! and Aeris’ limit break is still Healing Wind (A white mage Limit Break) becuase her predefined role is a WHITE MAGE! So yes you can change their roles to your own liking and have it work but they still have predefined roles that they preform best at. So its like this, They have a predefined role and a secondary job on top of that, one can be chosen and one can not. If you make the Predefined role and the secondary job match the character flourishes and works to its peak perfomance while if you make them clash it works decently but the character does not reach its peak performance. It is this element of choice of roles and predefined roles that makes the Materia system unique and enjoyable.
And with the Aeris thing, I’m not trying to prove or disprove anything I’m just saying Aeris is not able to ever do 9999 damage becuase she dies before you can give her unlimited sources so it is safe to say her maxed stats are the raw stats she has at lvl 99 maybe a little more if you gave her the few sources you find before u can get unlimited ones. Now at lvl 99 Aeris does not do 9999 damage, these are the normal circumstances not what you were saying becuase IT IS NOT NORMAL TO HAVE AERIS AFTER DISC 1!!!!!!! So she can not do 9999 damage ever unless u cheat which if u cheat you can make anyone do 9999 damage with shitty stats.
No, I omitted the Final Fantasies that are job related because they don’t help either of our cases. Re-read what I said, because you obviously missed that point.
In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.
Your argument doesn’t work because you can’t pick a character’s sphere up and move it at will. In FFVII you can switch materia to make a character whatever you want.
With FF1 yes after you choose them they are set in stone but you still have the ability to choose them unlike 4 and 6 where they are automatically set and you can’t do a thing about it.
But it doesn’t make it like FFVII where you can change your characters ONCE THE GAME HAS STARTED. You seem to miss the heart of every point someone else makes.
Anyway, if you want to continue talking about individual games like this, explain why it is important that it be proved/disproved that it is vital to discern which games are like FFVII and which ones are not. At this point I see no reason why it even helps your case, in fact, I have asked you at least three times to explain why it is important, and you ignore it each time. If you do not address this issue in your next post I will assume that you have no reasoning behind it, and ignore anything pertaining to it because I don’t have the time to argue for no reason.
Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do. If they had absolutly no predefined roles then if you made Cloud a white mage and Aeris a warrior then Aeris’ limit break should become Braver and Cloud’s should become healing wind, But they don’t, Cloud’s is still Braver (a warrior Limit Break) becuase his predefined role is a WARRIOR! and Aeris’ limit break is still Healing Wind (A white mage Limit Break) becuase her predefined role is a WHITE MAGE! So yes you can change their roles to your own liking and have it work but they still have predefined roles that they preform best at. So its like this, They have a predefined role and a secondary job on top of that, one can be chosen and one can not. If you make the Predefined role and the secondary job match the character flourishes and works to its peak perfomance while if you make them clash it works decently but the character does not reach its peak performance. It is this element of choice of roles and predefined roles that makes the Materia system unique and enjoyable.
I already explained why the materia system isn’t unique, so I’m not going to bother commenting on that again. Also, limit breaks don’t always dictate what the character is supposed to do. Nor does one aspect of a character dictate what that character is. In Neverwinter Nights you can start the game with 1 level as a sorcerer, and then take 39 levels of fighter. Just because you were a sorcerer at first it doesn’t mean that aspect of your character outweighs those 39 levels of fighter.
And with the Aeris thing, I’m not trying to prove or disprove anything I’m just saying Aeris is not able to ever do 9999 damage becuase she dies before you can give her unlimited sources so it is safe to say her maxed stats are the raw stats she has at lvl 99 maybe a little more if you gave her the few sources you find before u can get unlimited ones. Now at lvl 99 Aeris does not do 9999 damage, these are the normal circumstances not what you were saying becuase IT IS NOT NORMAL TO HAVE AERIS AFTER DISC 1!!!!!!! So she can not do 9999 damage ever unless u cheat which if u cheat you can make anyone do 9999 damage with shitty stats.
Just by saying that you have proven that you never even knew what my point was to begin with. Either that or you are purposely ignoring it because you can’t counter it. Either way you’re a waste of time, really.
I trained Aeris to lvl 99 in disc one. She did 9999 damage.
Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do.
The only place where the characters are differnt from each others are in their limit breaks. I didnt feel any urgent need to "take Tifa because I needed a healr" because hey look! Cloud can heal too.
Each character fills no roles. Cloud is a warrior because he has a giant sword. What does that make Barret? What does that make Tifa? I have no reason to Barret if I need more punch because I got Cloud. I dont need Aeris to cast summons because Cloud can cast them just as well. Your point has been killed.
In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.
FIne you can. But in FF7, everyone is everything. At once from the beginning of the game. In FF10 you are supposed to specialize in one area of the sphere grid till later. So I needed Yuna most of the game. I needed Lulu to cast my black magic. In FF7, I could do all that with Cloud in Sector 7, 15 min into the game.
If someone who can give a good argument comes forth, I’ll rejoin this. Until then, my time is better spent elsewhere.
You are the densest person I have ever met. I sincerely hope you’ve been joking around this whole time; otherwise you’re in for one sorry existence. Also, don’t give a little speech about how we’re suddenly attacking you and moving away from FFVII. You just attacked our character, which gives us every right to point out that you’re the biggest prick posting in this thread right now.
You really are a waste of everyone’s time at this point.
edit: Oh, and don’t even TRY to compare the materia system to FFI’s system. FFI’s system was and still is by far my favourite of the series because it provided the option of customizing your party without letting you have everyone do everything. If you wanted to have a healer, it HAD to be a white mage, and you had to decide that at the beginning. If you wanted to be an idiot (like me) you picked a party of all thieves. If you wanted a powerful physical fighter later in the game, you picked a black belt. You could choose what your party was, but your characters were PERMANENTLY limited by their class. FFVII provided no such limitations, as you could give every ability to every character with a couple of switches in the menue.
WRONG AGAIN!!!
A pathetic lvl 1 enemy with low defense (such as a hell rider)all characters will be able to do 9999 damage but with stronger enemies the will not be able to, enemies with average defense the attacks will do around 5000-7000 damage and even stronger enemies with high defenses (such as an Iron Giant)the damage dealt will be even less (somewhere in the 1000-3000 range).
Now before you say "But under normal cricumstances they would be able to do 9999 damage" I would like to bring up one thing. Becuase each enemies stats are different and are at different levels from one another they all then have different defense and therefore your characters will do a wide range of damage. So with this said it is safe to claim that there are NO normal battles, there are average battles where you do average damage but this average damage is not 9999.
This average damage can be found by adding up the damage dealt to all the enemies and dividing it by the number of enemies thus creating an average battle with average damage. This damage you will then find to be in the 6000-8000 damage range.
Now I know what you are all thinking, "but wait our base argument was the characters have the potential to do 9999 damage everything he is addressing are addons to that argument we can still get him", WRONG. Yes all the characters do have the potential to do their maximum amount of damage it just happens to be that that maximum amount of damage in FF7 is 9999. But in what Final Fantasy game are all the characters not able to do their maximum amount of damage? Its just that in FF7 it was 9999 while in others it might have been lower or higher due to game programming limitations. So if your gonna say that Final Fantasy VII sucks for this reason you might as well say ALL the Final Fantasy’s suck for this reason.
Now on to Character Roles
I agree that programmers cannot forsee the way the game can be played for example in Wow they cannot tell that some chars use their abilites to skip content and must be patched but that does not mean there are not roles. The roles are simply there as a guide line saying that this is what the character is designed to do and what they will do best but you dont have to follow them and you can still have it work out decently. Squaresoft this time is just saying that that here are the preset roles of the characters and what they are designed to and what they will do best at, but you don’t have to follow them this time, you can assign them the roles you choose to fit your unique style through the options we are giving you through the materia the preset roles are just what they will do best at.
Show me the proof that this will ALWAYS hold true with every character at level 99. Right now you’re pulling random numbers out of the air, so unless you can offer me solid proof that every character will have an average damage of 6000-8000 at level 99 everything you said before this paragraph is wasted, as well as the paragraph after.
I agree that programmers cannot forsee the way the game can be played for example in Wow they cannot tell that some chars use their abilites to skip content and must be patched but that does not mean there are not roles. The roles are simply there as a guide line saying that this is what the character is designed to do and what they will do best but you dont have to follow them and you can still have it work out decently. Squaresoft this time is just saying that that here are the preset roles of the characters and what they are designed to and what they will do best at, but you don’t have to follow them this time, you can assign them the roles you choose to fit your unique style through the options we are giving you through the materia the preset roles are just what they will do best at.
You’ve missed the point again. Go back, re-read what was said, and then try to respond.
Oh and I love how you called my final paragraph on this topic trash when it is not.
Offer. Proof. Or. Don???t. Post.
Oh and I love how you called my final paragraph on this topic trash when it is not.
I didn’t call it anything; AGAIN you are putting words in people’s mouths. However, I’m no longer devoting as much time to my responses because, as I said, you’re a waste of our time and someone who never offers anything valid or new.
Theres where you called the paragraph a waste therefore meaning trash.
now my point is not for mathematical accuracy, it is that you will not do 9999 damage all the time in an average battle becuase even if every enemy you did 9999 damage except for one with high defense you did 4000 that 4000 would lower the average, maybe not by a lot but it would lower it and now when we think about the real enemies there are more than one that have high defense cuasing you to do little damage that would lower that 9999 damage by even more. So in an average battle the average damage would not be 9999 but lower and I am estimating it in the 6000-8000 range becuase adding in all the enemies that you do high damage and all the ones you do low damage lowers the average.
You twisted my words. What I said was: Show me the proof that this will ALWAYS hold true with every character at level 99. Right now you’re pulling random numbers out of the air, so unless you can offer me solid proof that every character will have an average damage of 6000-8000 at level 99 everything you said before this paragraph is wasted, as well as the paragraph after.
Obviously nothing Prak said about twisting people’s words means anything to you. Honestly, are you just trying to wear us down with your constant stupidity?
now my point is not for mathematical accuracy, it is that you will not do 9999 damage all the time in an average battle becuase even if every enemy you did 9999 damage except for one with high defense you did 4000 that 4000 would lower the average, maybe not by a lot but it would lower it and now when we think about the real enemies there are more than one that have high defense cuasing you to do little damage that would lower that 9999 damage by even more. So in an average battle the average damage would not be 9999 but lower and I am estimating it in the 6000-8000 range becuase adding in all the enemies that you do high damage and all the ones you do low damage lowers the average.
You’re not offering proof. If you cannot offer proof don’t bother commenting on this again.
I’m sure you’re going to comment again, but I am also sure it will be a waste of everyone’s time. I honestly hope that you’re not as old as your profile said, otherwise I hope you are profoundly retarded. If not, I hope you have never made a serious post in this thread, and are merely trying to push our buttons. If not, I have lost faith in whatever school system produced you. Yes, I’m being blunt, and yes I’m getting personal, but you have become far too annoying to be civil about this. If you do not offer anything of substance I will no reply to you again. If I do not to reply then my silence should be taken to mean that there is nothing worth replying to, not that you have said something I cannot counter. Now, because I am sure you can’t produce a valid argument, let me wish you luck in talking (or typing as the case may be) to the wall.
Average battle?! Are you retarded? Man you have lost the right to speak.
This average damage can be found by adding up the damage dealt to all the enemies and dividing it by the number of enemies thus creating an average battle with average damage. This damage you will then find to be in the 6000-8000 damage range.
AVERAGE DAMAGE?! Okay. Look at it this way (some people just cant see it RETARD)
Cloud vs a Monster. Cloud deals 9999 damage at all times with any weapon but Ultima Weapon. One moster. One damage. 9999/1. That is 9999.
Okay lets do this again. Cloud vs 4 monsters. 4X Slash. 9999 x 4. That is total damage. Divide by 4 and you get 9999.
Okay lets do this again. Cloud versus a giant dragon thingie with a shitload of HP. Lets say, 99,000 HP. 9999*10 is 99000. The dragon dies. 99,000 x 1. Divided by one enemy is 99,000 average damage.
Okay lets do this again. Yuffie versus 10000000 monsters. She deals 9999 damage to each of them. 9999 x 10000000. Divided by 10000000. OMG. IS IT 9999?! Is Treekie a RETARD?!?!
Point PROVED! GWAHAHAHA.
You are crying about the enemy defense, but I have never done anything less that 9999 versus anyone or anything with any character in the game. Sephiroth? Nothing under that unless he casts barrier. Emerald? Ruby? Nothing under 9999 and my character stats were not even at 255.
At 255 strength even the Buster Sword does 9999 damage.
actually…that is quite impossible in three ways….
a) you probably arent able to do 9999 damage until late disc 2…and you said anyone or anything with any character in the game, meaning the whole game….which i know what you mean…but you should word it more carefully lol 😛
b) tifa cant do 9999 damage unless her limit bar is near full (and its hard to always keep it that full), and vincent has to defeat a lot of monsters to deal that kind of damage (and yes, im sure you meant after beefing all the characters up, bla bla bla…but again..im saying that you shud word your statement a lil more carefully)
c)some monsters (i think) cant be harmed with physical attacks
and i dont see the point in calling people names on here…its starting to begin again…prove everyone wrong to you hearts content…but leave the assholedness, yes, assholedness (i like making words :D) outta it…
Offer. Proof. Or. Don’t. Post.
i seriously havent seen you post solid proof to show that the characters do 9999 damage…so actually your too pulling random numbers out too…along with him
and why the fuck are we still talking about how much damage characters in the game deal anyway?!?!?!? Everyone on this thread is so content at proving each other wrong…you linger on and on and on and on and on about useless shit…argh….enough to make a sane person go crazy (thankfully all of us dont fit into the sane category)
anywho…goodnight for now
My only question is what the Hell the relevance of this is. What does this prove about the materia system? Jim, are you trying to deny that materia makes it possible for anyone to do anything? I know that Aeris has an innately higher magic stat, but that really doesn’t make that much of a difference. You say that Cloud has only a small amount of MP, but did it occur to you that that might be because you didn’t load him down with magic materia? For all practical intents and purposes, characters did not have specific functions, and there was no challenge in creating a balanced party because EVERYONE could use cure at any time. You know how I fought the elevator bosses? EVERYONE casts bolt over and over again, and they all did virtually the same damage. It just gets kind of dumb when a boss is weak against a certain magic so you just have everyone equip that magic.
The difference is that it has been confirmed by multiple people that they can do 9999 with every character. There is no confirmation that 6000-8000 is an "average" damage with everyone at level 99. He even admitted that he is estimating, which doesn’t fly. That’s why he needs to offer proof. If he is stating it as fact there has to be some form of proof behind it. I’ll admit, it is a lot easier to prove that a character can do 9999 damage than it is to prove what the average damage is that you’ll do in the game, but those are the breaks. If he doesn’t offer testable proof then the argument doesn’t count. The reason I don’t have to is because it has been tested, and proven, that all characters can do 9999.
As for the debate over damage itself, I think it spawned from the statement that characters can be exchanged without actually changing the party make-up, essentially meaning the game really only needs three characters to beat it. However, you’re right, he is concentrating on proving people wrong, and not the actual debate. I asked him to explain why certain arguments were important to his point, and he ignored it three times.
Ok I’ve got a working theoretical equation I’m going to be testing it and if it works I’ll post the results.
I know that you originally werent saying that RM but the argument turned into this whole thing of "in a normal battle under normal circumstances u will do 9999 damage" and what i am trying to prove is that there are no normal battles or normal circumstances but an average battle situation where the average damage will not be 9999 but in the 6000-8000 range and you said get mathmatical proof which is what I am working on I’m just gonna need some time.
and my argument is also now that if your gonna say FF7 sucks becuase the characters can do their max damage you might as well say all the FF’s suck becuase there is not a single FF where the characters are not capable of doing their max damage.
I know that you originally werent saying that RM but the argument turned into this whole thing of "in a normal battle under normal circumstances u will do 9999 damage" and what i am trying to prove is that there are no normal battles or normal circumstances but an average battle situation where the average damage will not be 9999 but in the 6000-8000 range and you said get mathmatical proof which is what I am working on I’m just gonna need some time.
That’s all well and good if you want it for your own information, but it won’t mean anything to the debate about FFVII being a good or bad game.
and my argument is also now that if your gonna say FF7 sucks becuase the characters can do their max damage you might as well say all the FF’s suck becuase there is not a single FF where the characters are not capable of doing their max damage.
I never said it sucks because they can do their max damage, you nimrod.
EDIT: Actually, from now on I won’t even bother correcting you. If you say something stupid I’ll just ignore you and let you wallow in your own warped sense of self-righteousness.
Go play the game and find out for yourself, it’s quite easy.
I’m sorry, I just had to say that.
You can go above 255, but it’ll still say 255, but at that point it won’t make much a difference, so go figure.
EDIT…well, this was supposed to be above chorns post…but meh
And it is releavent for me to prove my point which is that there is no normal battle but an average one with average damage which is in the 6000-8000 range so then no character can do 9999 all the time. Now the reason this is important is becuase you guys said the materia system sucked becuase all the characters could do 9999 damage and we’re just saying that if your gonna say the materia system sucks becuase of this then all the Final Fantasy Battle systems suck becuase of this becuase there is not a single Final Fantasy where the characters at some point can not do their max damage.
Well let me tell you Trekkie. Rabid Monkey’s reason is wrong. But the materia system still sucks. You want to know why?
I trained Aeris to lvl 99 in disc one. She did 9999 damage.
Quote:
Now when we reach FF7 instead of it being either the Job system or the preset role system it becomes a mix of both. The characters have preset roles that they excell at and are at their best when they are used as those roles but they will still work with other roles that you can choose to fit your fighting style. The roles of the characters after FF7 begin to be more defined by their limit breaks as opposed to what their attacks are dedicated to. So they have both Predefined roles and roles you can make them have. But there predefined roles are what they are best at and designed to do.
The only place where the characters are differnt from each others are in their limit breaks. I didnt feel any urgent need to "take Tifa because I needed a healr" because hey look! Cloud can heal too.
Each character fills no roles. Cloud is a warrior because he has a giant sword. What does that make Barret? What does that make Tifa? I have no reason to Barret if I need more punch because I got Cloud. I dont need Aeris to cast summons because Cloud can cast them just as well. Your point has been killed.
Quote:
In FFX you can go back and forth if you actually fight in battles and do side quest to get a lot of spheres. My Yuna is a White Mage, Black Mage, Warrior, and Thief. My Tidus is a Warrior, White Mage and a Thief. You can go back and forth becuase once you aquire one role you always have it you can just use the role you want to when you want to and then change to something else just by choosing a different attack.
FIne you can. But in FF7, everyone is everything. At once from the beginning of the game. In FF10 you are supposed to specialize in one area of the sphere grid till later. So I needed Yuna most of the game. I needed Lulu to cast my black magic. In FF7, I could do all that with Cloud in Sector 7, 15 min into the game.
No offense to you, but the junction system was WAAAYYYY too easy. If you just knew a little bit about it, you could quite easily have Squall doing 2000 damage in the Dollet field exam. If you know what you’re doing, the junction system can jack up your stats so much that you’re literally invincible, and it doesn’t even take much work. Apart from that, characters had almost no value as components of your party, other than Squall, who was the ultimate strong guy who could kill everything in one hit. I thought FFVII and FFVIII had systems that made the game too easy, even if I did enjoy them. However, the reason why I enjoyed them was because I’m a weirdo who likes to take bosses to school in ridiculous ways. In FFVIII, I’ve beaten bosses entirely with one character’s physical attack because I was trying (and I failed) to mug them. Maybe I’m just kind of rambling, but these systems were just too easy.
That wasnt my point. my point is that the Junction system was a lot more user-friendly and customizable. And I do know what I am on about. It is just as easy to get Squall’s HP over 1000 before you get to the Fire Cavern (and that is without training to level 100 in the Training centre).
Ok you may not mean it now but when you originally said it in the context and way you said it made it seem like a bad thing.
And in FF7 there are predefined roles you just don’t have to follow them. In this one its like "hey everyone can use magic but these people here are the ones designed to use it becuase they dont do good physical damage do to their weapons.
And Dragoncurry I calculated your Aeris’s damage with maxed stats and her best weapon but since i couldnt calculate her POA i used 25 which is about average and got 9456 without enemy defense and against an iron giant it would be 4685 and against an average enemy it would be 6754. And then i did it with clouds max POA and still only got 8567 on an average enemy.
u jus said aeris sux cuz low dmg dat mean u think ff7 bad game. u loose.
Power Rangers > FF7 > Every video game
Power Rangers had a video game, can’t be better than itself. 😛
The game sucked, but on the scale of greatness Power Rangers sits on top like dairy on a food pyramid
I do. This thread is why FF7 is a good game. Someone mentioned the materia system being the best and I am disagreeing with it. Simple.
Best story line relative to what? Also, just because characters react to a given situation, that doesn???t make it a good game. Actually, I???d like you to name one game where characters don???t have a reaction, ever. Also, I’d hardly consider FFVII "awesome".
Go back and read the rest of the argument you nitwit. I was not saying it sucked I was saying that Aeris does not always do 9999 damage becuase RM and everyone else on that side was saying "FF7 sux cuz all the characters are the same and can do 9999 damage" I was just proving them wrong. I was proving that the characters are not all the same cuz Cloud can do more damage than Aeris and other characters. There are roles you just don’t have to use them in this Final Fantasy, and why is choice over roles a bad thing?
I think I’m gonna have to type another Essay soon to remind you guys why its storyline and what not are good.
Oh and a note to TheGreenRanger THE OLD POWER RANGERS KICKED ASS!!!!!
I agree with RM, FFVII did not have the best storyline. Out of all the FF’s, Final Fantasy IX had the best.
Cloud can do more damage than Aeris
There are roles you have to use them in this Final Fantasy
o u were sayin! da charter need 2 hav a role n cnat chang eva! but dat wuld mak da gam no fun!
o u were sayin! da charter need 2 hav a role n cnat chang eva! but dat wuld mak da gam no fun!
FOR FUCKS SAKE BACK AND READ THE ARGUMENTS YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!
You have no idea what you are talking about. I am not saying FF7 sux im on the side that says it is a good game.
lolz me 2!
Oh and incase you don’t go back and see if there were other comments made before we got a new page DAS FRUIT, GO BACK AND READ!!!
ok, my point was that it has a great story line and the characters "live" up to it. oh and by the way, game characters dont really have reactions so really your wrong, no game has a character that could acctually have a reaction to anything, no matter how many times you play they always are "programed" to do the same thing. and if you dont think its "awsome", then you can keep that to yourself cause really i didnt ask if you didnt think it was, asked other poeple who thaught it "was".
Define "live up to it".
the characters reactions to thing are so different that it brings more to the story
oh and by the way, game characters dont really have reactions so really your wrong, no game has a character that could acctually have a reaction to anything, no matter how many times you play they always are "programed" to do the same thing.
You just directly contradicted yourself. A bit bi-polar, are you?
and if you dont think its "awsome", then you can keep that to yourself cause really i didnt ask if you didnt think it was, asked other poeple who thaught it "was".
Let me explain. This is a debate thread. People offer options (AS WELL AS BACKING UP WHAT THEY SAY WITH FACTS), and then people who disagree offer counter-arguments. You said something, asked if anyone agreed, I said that I did not, and offered reasons why I do not agree. It’s not my fault this concept is new to you.
With the equation the stat ATT= Strength + ATK
Base Damage = ATT+[ (ATT+lvl/32)(ATT+lvl/32)]
Damage = (Base Damage)(Power of Attack)
With enemy defense you have to use this equation
DefNum = [Def * (100 + Defense Mod) / 100]
Damage = [Damage * (512 – DefNum) / 512]
All solutions round down, and if the solution is over 9999 it rounds down to 9999.
The only problem I am having with this is calculating Power of Attack right now I can get an ideal number for it but I need to find the rate of growth for this stat to get an accurate answer.
I was able to find this info at www.gamefaqs.com
Oops, sorry for double posting, I don’t know why it did it, usually when I add something like this it just adds it to my previous post. I wonder why it didnt do it thise time?
And besides, if certain details that were vital to understanding the plot were buried, then that’s a pretty good argument for the game being utter shit.
what…the…fuck…
That is complete bullshit, so I’d love to see you try to back that up. Actually, I’d love for you to stay banned even more.
if u mis sometin da first dime u play den ur stupid n u loose da debate lolz looser
I just wanted to make sure that no one misses this because I think you all need a good laugh right now.
I’m back.
And the fact that having only two threads about this topic instead of 5 or 6 a month is a lot better.
Ok a storyline does not suck becuase they have hidden details that reveal events in the plot that are not always obvious the first time through it. Infact there are many great movies, games, and books that use this technique and for most people who say these stories suck most likely it is becuase they missed these details the first time like most people and are too stubborn to go back throught the story to catch the details because they are afraid they might catch them and thus like the story and have nothing left to bitch about. there are so many great movies and books out there that use this technique of obscure details it would take forever for me to name them so i will just bring up the one known by most people and that is "The Sixth Sense". in the end we find out that the main character is actually a ghost who was shot and we didnt see it coming at all, yet when we see the movie a second time we see all these clever details that show us that he is infact a ghost, such as the red doorknob, he never talks to anyone but the kid, and so on and so forth, yet is everyone going around say that it was a bad movie for this technique? NO they are not. So if you are gonna say that FF7’s storyline sucks for this reason then you might as well say that all the other storys that use this technique suck.
Ok a storyline does not suck becuase they have hidden details that reveal events in the plot that are not always obvious the first time through it. Infact there are many great movies, games, and books that use this technique and for most people who say these stories suck most likely it is becuase they missed these details the first time like most people and are too stubborn to go back throught the story to catch the details because they are afraid they might catch them and thus like the story and have nothing left to bitch about. there are so many great movies and books out there that use this technique of obscure details it would take forever for me to name them so i will just bring up the one known by most people and that is "The Sixth Sense". in the end we find out that the main character is actually a ghost who was shot and we didnt see it coming at all, yet when we see the movie a second time we see all these clever details that show us that he is infact a ghost, such as the red doorknob, he never talks to anyone but the kid, and so on and so forth, yet is everyone going around say that it was a bad movie for this technique? NO they are not. So if you are gonna say that FF7’s storyline sucks for this reason then you might as well say that all the other storys that use this technique suck.
If/when you become unbanned, please give us some examples as to what "details" you’re talking about, because I’ve played through the game four times and I have no clue what you’re talking about.
You get no sympathy (much less assistance) from me. As bad as I think the game is, you should still pay for it.
the "FFVII is NOT a good game" thread is THE EXACT REPLICA OF THIS THREAD.
you are debating about the SAME thing. on two different threads. i know that the titles are different, but come on!
It is pointless, I agree. However, if one were to be deleted, many more would crop up.
haha yeah
Good job there buddy. This thread was almost two weeks old and on the verge of being dead, but once again someone has to revive it, thus sparking more arguments.
That’s because it was your thread 😛
This thread was almost two weeks old and on the verge of being dead, but once again someone has to revive it, thus sparking more arguments.
Are there really 2 threads to debate the exact same thing? How pointless…why don’t they just post in the other?
My point entirely. I requested that one of them should be deleted about 8 pages ago.
No, a thread doesn’t get deleted unless it is a very rare occasion. And it would be even more trouble to do so on a thread that is this massive. But even if it wasn’t a big deal erasing threads, then that would basically make you sound hypocritical.
Check the dates the threads were started, smart guy.
And who likes to use capital letters for each word.