Let’s discuss: Ability systems in FF

OK. Which ability systems do think are the best and why? Which system(s) is/are your personal favourite(s)?

Esentially, ability systems in FF can be categorized into a few general categories:

-The ‘Classic’ Final Fantasy ability system: Characters have pre-defined abilities that they can learn based on their personalities and physical/mental attributes. Found in many Final Fantasy titles, most recently FFIX. Popular with many gamers, paticularly fans of older FFs, because of the sense of individuality it gives to the characters, but does not allow for much (if any) customization of characters’ battle attributes. Also, this system tends to require 4 characters instead of 3 due to its rigidness.

-The ‘Jobs’ system-Also known as dresspheres in FFX-2. Characters’ attributes are not pre-defined, but instead characters can assume any of a variety of roles in battle. The ‘role’ given to each character determines their battle attributes. In X-2, characters could ‘spherechange’ and change jobs in battle. This system allows for maximum flexibility, but hardly sets a character in his or her context in a battle as anyone can be the Warrior/White Mage etc. Also, in order to make full use of all jobs/dresspheres, the player must learn all abilities for each job, which can be a frustrating process. Found in a couple of early FFs and re-introduced successfully in X-2.

-The ‘compromise’. Many FFs have attempted to find a middle ground between the two extremes of flexibility and character individuality. Systems such as FFVII’s Materia, FFVIII’s Junction system and FFX’s Sphere Grid have attempted to meet the needs of both kinds of fans. In a sense, the compromise works-a character’s battle attributes in the above games are partly down to character individuality (though in FFX’s case only if the Beginner Sphere Grid is chosen) and partly down to the player’s decision as to how he or she wants their charcters to be. Unfortunately, this compromise often seems not to bridge the divide between the two extremes, rather more to alienate the fans of both extremes.

Where do you stand on the ‘ability spectrum’? Are you a libertarian or an individualist?

My opinion is that while the jobs system is nice, I’d prefer individuals with set abilities a l� FFIX. My main gripe with the jobs is the length of time it takes to learn the abilities for each job. In FFX-2 that was paticularly true-while the AP Eggs did sort of level the playing field I was still well beyond Lv 80 by the time I’d learned enough abilities to make switching in battle worthwhile. And by that time my stats would have been more than high enough to trump Shuyin blindfolded 🙁

I wasn’t a huge fan of the systems I listed as ‘compromises’ either-Materia was a bit shitty as anyone could learn any ability rendering it essentially a jobs-lite system only without the cute costumes 😉 and FFVIII’s Junction was, well, broken beyond belief, to be brutally honest. 3000+HP at Lv 10? The Sphere Grid made a more decent fist of striking a balance, but as I said, that is negated if you pick the Expert Sphere Grid.

You forgot FFII’s(as in the dawn of souls one) ability system, where you have to train every skill. like if you want to raise your max HP you must lose HP, or raising your evasion requires you to get physicaly hit

that one’s actually my fav because anyone can be anything

Hmm. Well I never played FFII, but it would seem that is an exception in this argument, which is basically between two polar ends in the manner of a political spectrum.

Sounds interesting, though.

I take it from your comment that you aren’t in favour of individulaist type systems?

not quite sure what you mean by individualist, but i like the the "job" system expesialy in FF Tactics Advance, there’s alot of jobs / races and you can have up to 32 characters

not quite sure what you mean by individualist, but i like the the "job" system expesialy in FF Tactics Advance, there’s alot of jobs / races and you can have up to 32 characters

By individulaist I mean the type of system implemented in FFIX, whereby characters are basically confined to their dormant abilities which are pre-defined according to their physical/mental attributes.

The first option on my list, basically.

But FFII had stat differences which were actually quite large, like Maria being better at increasing her black magic stat. And there were lots of little characters here and there, each with pre-defined abilities and different levels of stat growth, like Minwu with his white magic skills.

And that didn’t really allow for too much variety, as you had to choose a few fighting techniques to use throughout the game, or would suffer because you are weak. Or, of course, you could level, which took forever, unless you used cheap methods like attacking each other for HP or absorbing MP from each other for higher MP. So you were pretty much stuck with inflexible units with one good weapon type and a few decent spells, maybe.

give me the compromise or the classic system any day. i did NOT like the grid system though…

compromise: you can make your characters into what you want them to be without the tedious characteristics of the job system. granted, the classic system is even less tedious in some aspects because each job is already assigned. the only reason i like the compromise system is ffVII, really. the materia system was great. ffVI’s way of learning magic (almost a materia-lite system) was nice as well. you can learn the spells you want, don’t have to learn useless ones and keep it moving.

classic: the classic system is great because you can just level up your characters without having to micro manage. its pretty easy to just grind and get what you want.

But FFII had stat differences which were actually quite large, like Maria being better at increasing her black magic stat. And there were lots of little characters here and there, each with pre-defined abilities and different levels of stat growth, like Minwu with his white magic skills.

And that didn’t really allow for too much variety, as you had to choose a few fighting techniques to use throughout the game, or would suffer because you are weak. Or, of course, you could level, which took forever, unless you used cheap methods like attacking each other for HP or absorbing MP from each other for higher MP. So you were pretty much stuck with inflexible units with one good weapon type and a few decent spells, maybe.

I really disagree… With Maria I was constantly switching between knives, swords, and bows… And hell I had Guy with all level 10 black magic spells in the end.

The rigid class system is great for giving each character an actual personality which fits with the gameplay involving that person. However, that does not mean it’s an actually good combat system.

On the other hand, the job system allows for more flexibility and generally more enhanced, complex combat which can be interesting. It’s only flaw is that it mean there can’t be any character development without risking it going against the combat techniques of the characters, like having a healer with an aggressive personality.

God, why hasn’t anyone thought up having a job system where jobs alter to fit the characters’ personalities?!

e-mail SE they may like the idea or make your own game…

give me the compromise or the classic system any day. i did NOT like the grid system though…

compromise: you can make your characters into what you want them to be without the tedious characteristics of the job system. granted, the classic system is even less tedious in some aspects because each job is already assigned. the only reason i like the compromise system is ffVII, really. the materia system was great. ffVI’s way of learning magic (almost a materia-lite system) was nice as well. you can learn the spells you want, don’t have to learn useless ones and keep it moving.

classic: the classic system is great because you can just level up your characters without having to micro manage. its pretty easy to just grind and get what you want.

What was your specific problem with the Sphere Grid?

Well, I DO know Japanese…but I don’t think they’ll be interested in the insights of a 15-year-old boy. I mean, they’re SQUARE ENIX, one of the most powerful game-making companies in the world. I’m some kid.

Well, I DO know Japanese…but I don’t think they’ll be interested in the insights of a 15-year-old boy. I mean, they’re SQUARE ENIX, one of the most powerful game-making companies in the world. I’m some kid.

why not do my second suggestion then?

any way back on subject, I honestly liked the grid system but not the license system ,its really tedius trying to find where the katanas were when you use long swords…

If you want flexiable Job system go for FFT where you chose a job and then could modify it to have a greater range an example have a Dragoon who could use Items since that was a Chemist class job. You could also modify how Far you could go and terrian, Equipment, Duel, 2 hand and so forth.

Plus the Hero units in that game each came with a Job of their own that fit their personality and gave them unique Class abilities but still let them branch into the normal Job classes like the grunts you could get.

That sounds quite cool Revaninja. Never played Tactics myself. I read quite a few reviews though and got the impression that it wasn’t as good as most of the main FF series.

The plot was thin and the Ablities were hard to get since you had to learn each and every thing like potions it was a decently hard game.
The plot while thin was okay since it had a religous background similar to Catholic and Christians they had to tread lightly since nearly the whole plot is the church being used by demons they had to be VERY careful on their approach in it.
Also it was the father of the FF series 3d terrian battle like what you find in XI XII and T.Advance.
It’s not an Awesome game but it is a good game for its time when Square was starting to make deeper plots for its games so if you liked Advance or FFXII then I am pretty postive you at least somewhat enjoy FFT.

Haven’t played XII yet, but am getting it when it comes out over here, and hope it lives up to my expectations. 🙂

Personally, I must say that I prefer FFIX system. It was easy and very comprehensible, even for the light-hearted.

Im a fun of the classic one, for reasons stated on the first post

I like them all. It would be boring to have all Final Fantasies with the same battle system.

I wouldn’t really include FFX-2 because as far as Yuna and Rikku is concerned they were defined in FFX and having another game with another sphere grid would have been crap.

FFVII VIII and X had a lot of customisation involved but some characters were in the end better then others at particular things unless you spent weeks apon weeks levelling them. Picture setting Lulu on Tidus’s sphere path and have her do 2000 a hit by the time you reach Hastaga, it wouldn’t work because she doesnt have the base stats to begin with whereas Tidus does, and visa versa with magic, evasion, etc.

FFXI being online had a good way of going around the idea but its unique to online games, not bog standard FF.

Personally, I liked Dress-spheres/Job that can be changed.

Personally, my favorite would be FFX’s Sphere Grid, followed by FFXII’s License Grid. For the reason that both ability systems want you to work hard to get the abilities you need. Although it can be time-consuming, it’s still cool, and it’s not very boring to work with, because the battle in both of FFX and FFXII are pretty fun.

And, I prefer the "Compromise" ability system.

Personally, my favorite would be FFX’s Sphere Grid, followed by FFXII’s License Grid. For the reason that both ability systems want you to work hard to get the abilities you need. Although it can be time-consuming, it’s still cool, and it’s not very boring to work with, because the battle in both of FFX and FFXII are pretty fun.

And, I prefer the "Compromise" ability system.

Fair points, though I disagree myself, and also, welcome back. 😉

My only problem with FFXII learning system is the 2 prong set up. Not only do I need the Liscenes but I have to buy the Magic, and Abilities. I could understand the equipment it made it fun for that but the Abilities were a pain because you could have for an age and a half the Liscene but only get a tech near the end Teleknisis for example I got that after I saw Vossler use it like 4 hours after but its not tell the end of the game you get it and it is such a USEFUL ability since it lets your Melee weapon users hit flying creatures without switching to a long range weapon. It would have been nice like the Augments tat you get it on the LP board you could use the techs and such with out purchasing it. That is my only complaint about FFXII ability system.

Good point. They should’ve made it so the license board had mostly stat augments like the +500 HP and that if you bought a tech license on the license board then you automatically got to use it that ability. That Telekenesis tech would’ve helped so much and i could’ve saved MP by not using my attack magick on flying foes since i never used bows in the game.

I guess my favorite would be the compromise system. I really liked FFVII’s materia system, i thought it worked out pretty well.

The compromise is okay but I prefer a Unique equip or ability for one person then having branch like going back to FFT how the Hero units had something only they or one or two others could do. It makes you appericate a certain character more but still lets you customise a Character to how you want it. An example would be having Agrias equiped with Holy sword abilities and a Sword equip option then whatever job she has currently. This she learns what you want or has the ability you want while still providing her best feature making her more valuable to a player. FFXII could have made something similar a Tech or magic or something only that character could do while still being a very morphable design.

I have always liked Job classes like Dark Knight Paladin Dragoon and so forth since you really don’t find those or all those jobs in other games with some exception. The standard is usally Knight Mage and so forth. But I also like being able to shape a Character to my play style so what I hope square goes back to is something like FFVI where each character could use most equip learn all spells but still having something only they use alone.

*One off topic question*

Im playing FFVI: Advanced right now and only Terra can learn magic. Is the Advanced version different from the previously released version of the game or do i have to wait till later in the game to have my other characters be able to learn magic?

SPOLIER
Later when you get what is called Magicite you equip one per person and as you fight you get what I think is AP which teaches you magic. The Magicite has different spells on each and can summon once per battle an esper if I rememeber right. You get your first Magicite pieces in ZoZo if I rememeber. Also Celes the hot Blond bomb shell also learns Ice spells as she levels.
By the end of the game and if you made wise choices in your selection of sidequest where and when you can learn every Spell for all characters though it is a pain espically for some of the more powerful ones.
A small Hint when you get Odin make every one learn his spell before you turn him into Raiden because Raiden has a different spell. Same goes for the man who asks i you want a Magicite shard turned into a Sword say NO it has a very good spell and while the sword is good Atma weapon at high levels is better. It grows stronger the Higher your current HP is so i you get hit it goes down in strength but it is a GOOD sword mostly.

Personally I can’t stand Trance…. IMH HUMBLE HUMBLE O Trance is crap… The only character who’s Trance was worth using was Zidane… however when they transformed they looked awesome… like Steiner… and sadly, your trance never lasted that long to be of any good use… unless like I said you used Zidane. So FFIX talks last place in my book…

FFVIII had a nice system…. but too overpowered, all together… with a few different abilities… oh who am I kidding, Recover, Revive, and Treatment…. why do I need magic lol? Well besides Stat builidng… I can honestly remember NOT using magic in that game one bit… maybe near the beginning but I highly doubt it.

FFVII was fair… not overpowered really until you get KOTR summon, MIME, MIME, MIME, Mr. MIME… But I still think that without that it was solid… nothing special. Not even Limit Lv 4 was overpowered… I mean compared to say….. Lionheart every turn with Aura…

FFX was really solid as well… nothing in there extremely cheap… even Bahamut wasn’t all powerful with Break limit, I did like the ATB bar on the side, kinda told you the effect of using an item, magic… and I think that it was nice that that mechanic was even introduced… awesome even. Use Ultima or Meteor… wait more then normal amount of turns before you get to act. Brings the playing field to normal.

FFX-2 I really really love the battle mechanics in this one… it was different, it’s quick, you can chain spells/attacks… they still somewhat implemented the "charge" period for using certain skills… certain things were cheesy.. like when your able to toss ANY item for free lol… makes you WANT to have to have an alchemist always in the party, or the Lady luck pause trick. But it was still great imo. We’ll overlook the Mog suit which I can’t remember the damn name.

FFXII The BEST system Mechanic… almost plays like a mix of FFX-2 with FFXI. I think the Gambits (lol… er.. Macros) Are pretty awesome.. they give PLENTY of options… personal favorite is Enemy weak vs. ____ Quick battles are awesome…. no waiting for the 40 sec long exp screen… which isn’t so bad but when your just lvl… just bring on the next mob already… and when your falling asleep…. which most of us have at one point…. you can practically just run into a mob and it does the work, ha. Not really an overpowering thing… I don’t really use Espers or Quickenings for that matter.. I know they can be devastating… especially the Quickenings and certain Espers. Only big deal I found was when I actually decided to finish up with the story… I have Vaan lvl 60… rest of party was about 54-55… and I pretty much just walked all over any boss for the rest of the game… I was a lil disappointed in that.. but still the way the system works is awesome… not to mention boss attacks… some of those attacks just look awesome…

Um… I think Albel read this already heh heh

compromise or classic. ff3 espers, ff7 materia, fft/5 job, or ff2 classic.