http://www.gamespot.com/features/6155700/index.html?tag=topslot;action;1
Read it.
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6155700/index.html?tag=topslot;action;1
so what if one person just gives his OPINION about ff7?
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY.
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY.
Im not saying anything. Read the article. Read the title of the article. Its not just the fanboys talking about this game.
ass kissing? Why do you say that?
if you’re not saying anything, then there is no point to this thread.
and what has this got to do with the so-called "ff7 haters" ?_?
and what has this got to do with the so-called "ff7 haters" ?_?
Just read some of the responses to this thread. Look at how upset some people get. Thats why I put "for the FF7 haters".
if you’re posting the link of this article just to upset the "ff7 haters" then… how should i say this…
you’re stupid. ^^
Tried to hard? All I did was post a link of an article. Take it easy buddy.
Yui, you are entitled to your opinion. Say what you want. Its just funny to me.
Fail at what? This article I posted didnt have facts? Theres no substance? Just read it and appreciate it.
what?
oh and i have something for you, sweetheart.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/final-fantasy-vii/reviews/reviewerId,44055/
I appreciated very, very little of it.
Because most of the "opinions" she brings up in the article, have been brought up on the Shrine with numerous counterexamples.
There is very little truth in this article.
I appreciated very, very little of it.
Because most of the "opinions" she brings up in the article, have been brought up on the Shrine with numerous counterexamples.
There is very little truth in this article.
So you can say the person who wrote that article is a "fanboy". I wouldnt say that. It was a great game. Its just good to see the game get the credit it due.
oh and i have something for you, sweetheart.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/final-fantasy-vii/reviews/reviewerId,44055/
Although I clearly say, I absolutely agree with this; I couldn’t take it seriously for the mere fact that it was written by someone who doesn’t know the general idea of a homophone.
it’s just bad to see fanboys who post game reviews that say "ff7 is great" in this forum. 🙁
Absolutely mad.
Absolutely mad.
And the opinion of the ff haters are credible?
So it is your decision within your own mind to find my opinion credible, or utter bologna.
So it is your decision within your own mind to find my opinion credible, or utter bologna.
But I agree with the author of the article. Therefore its credible. IMO it was a great game.
Now, either you can consider the statement above and say "I see where you are coming from but…," or "duude wtf r u tlkn abot ur opinniion is stupid."
It is how you present yourself that makes your opinion credible or just completely idiotic. With the article banner at the top that says, "Final Fantasy VII, Greatest Game Ever!" I can instantly find that opinion brainless.
Now, either you can consider the statement above and say "I see where you are coming from but…," or "duude wtf r u tlkn abot ur opinniion is stupid."
It is how you present yourself that makes your opinion credible or just completely idiotic. With the article banner at the top that says, "Final Fantasy VII, Greatest Game Ever!" I can instantly find that opinion brainless.
The banner says greatest gameS of all time. Its not saying FF7 is the best game of all time. Now I look at your opinion and say, hey your entitled to it. I wont sit here and say "damn you’re and idiot for saying FF7 sucks".
Because I can still have the same argument regardless. It isn’t one of the greatest games of all time.
Which makes the presentation to me seem idiotic.
oh and i have something for you, sweetheart.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/final-fantasy-vii/reviews/reviewerId,44055/
Whoever wrote that, must be a spastic. It is so obvious he is comparing todays graphics in games to the graphics back in 1997. He probably wouldn’t know a good game if it ran up behind him, gave him a wedgie, kicked him in the balls and shit on his face.
Long story short.. the guy is a loser. Final Fantasy VII is very overrated. It is a good game, but it is just a game. People have to understand that..
The Final Fantasy series is one the most significant franchises in video game history, responsible for numerous games that were both profound and critically adored. The series is also a veritable road map for how console role-playing games have progressed through multiple console generations, from its birth on the NES to later successes on Sony’s consoles. Though fans of the franchise will argue until they run out of breath about which of the many great Final Fantasy games is the best, the name that frequently rises to the top of those discussions is the franchise’s most influential game, Final Fantasy VII.
Maybe because it was the most marketed game in history? That might have something to do with it. I’m not sure though. :rolleyes:
Final Fantasy VII is as good as it is important, but it’s perhaps the latter quality that makes it stand out to so many people. It was the game’s length and ultimately its file size that made it impossible for SquareSoft to continue its exclusive relationship with Nintendo and its cartridge-based N64 system. Instead, Final Fantasy VII made its debut on three CD-ROMs on the Sony PlayStation, and it featured fully 3D characters on prerendered backgrounds. But it is arguably the FMV cinematics that are most often remembered, the length and power of which gave Final Fantasy VII its potency, and it’s what remains at the core of its legacy even now.
What, a train pulling into a station? Amazing :rolleyes:
In Final Fantasy VII you assume the role of Cloud Strife, a spiky blonde-haired renegade who carries two things with him, the enormous and distinguishing Buster Sword and the memories of his dark, sordid past. As a former member of the military group SOLDIER, Cloud turns to fight alongside the "good guys," a resistance movement called AVALANCHE that seeks to stop SOLDIER and the group behind it, Shin-Ra, from siphoning all the energy from the planet. The energy, which comes from the planet’s Lifestream, is responsible for all life, so as Shin-Ra seeks to use the energy to power their enormous reactors, their actions are in turn destroying the planet.
Enormous and distinguishing? More like compensating, iykwim.
While the core concepts might not be unique, it’s Cloud’s interactions with other characters, especially between him and the game’s antagonist, Sephiroth, which make the story so special.
SEPHIROTH GOES AROUND KILLING PEOPLE. WE MUST FOLLOW HIM TO AVENGE MY PAST. zzzzzzzzzzzzz
players can’t help but detest Cloud and his supporting cast, who are easily as shallow as he is. At the top of the list is ‘tough girl with a mini-skirt and mamaries a lot bigger then her personality’ Tifa
Fix’d.
and the mystical flower girl Aeris (Aerith), whose relationship with Cloud you can govern by selecting different conversational choices along the way.
Like what? Whether or not she goes on a date with him, which doesn’t effect the game in the least. Fail.
There’s also Sephiroth, whose appearance among flames as he burns down Cloud’s hometown might be one of the most recognizable cutscenes ever to grace video games. And let’s not forget that he’s responsible for the most shocking moment in video games, the most spoilerific spoiler of all time, the death of Aeris.
I’ll tell you this, i’ll remember the heroic sacrifice of General Leo in FFVI a hell of a lot longer then either one of them. OH LOOK, SEPHIROTH JUST IMPALED A FLOWER GIRL THROUGH THE BACK. :rolleyes:
Though story and character certainly are the heart of Final Fantasy VII
The game no doubt had a coronary very early in its life then.
the gameplay mechanics are the soul, perfectly fusing typical RPG complexity and accessibility. It’s little wonder that Final Fantasy VII is one of the most popular games of all time, as it’s often credited with propagating console RPGs outside of Japan.
The moron who wrote this article clearly has no idea why it is so popular and mainstream.
Most notably the materia system.
Which is shit and removes any element of strategy. No need to think about who to pick. The powerful mage for an area with enemies who are weak vs magic, or vice versa with the fighter class character. You can pick who like and this removes any sense of individuality.
and the game’s elaborate summons (especially Knights of the Round) keep the 50-plus hours of gameplay interesting as you travel across the beautiful land, via Chocobo or airship, uncovering the mysteries of Cloud’s past. And the music that accompanies you is one of legendary composer Nobuo Uematsu’s finest–from the game’s take on the Prelude to the graceful beauty of Cosmo Canyon to the orchestral epic One Winged Angel–the music is both gorgeous and extraordinarily memorable.
The music is quite decent, to be fair. I didn’t have a problem with it. One Winged Angel is over-rated though.
But perhaps the most amazing thing about Final Fantasy VII is its life after the game. Recognized by fans the world over, Final Fantasy VII frequently graces the top of "fan favorites" lists, including the reader-driven GameFAQs’ Best Character, Best Villain, and Best Game Ever summer poll contests, which have had Cloud Strife, Sephiroth, and Final Fantasy VII coming in at the top of their respective categories year after year. Square Enix, too, recognizes the series’ potential and has built an entire universe of games around Final Fantasy VII. The Compilation of Final Fantasy VII consists of spin-off games in the same universe on a host of different platforms, as well as the Final Fantasy VII movie, Advent Children. There’s no game that has a better chance of success than Final Fantasy VII, as it’s the first franchise to kick off Square Enix’s new experimental concept of "polymorphic content."
Complete crap. Anyone of merit will tell you Kefka and Kuja was an infinetly better villians. Again, he fails to see why FFVII is so popular. It is possibly one of the most mainstream games ever made. Also, all FF games have ‘life after them’.
Do you honestly think FFVII would have the popularity it did if it was not marketed as much as it was?
Note how most die-hard fans of FFVII are usually 13-14yr old, impressionable people, vunerable to the influences of what they are told. Hess was right when he said ‘If a lie is repeated enough, it soon becomes truth.’
Maybe because it was the most marketed game in history? That might have something to do with it. I’m not sure though. :rolleyes:
What, a train pulling into a station? Amazing :rolleyes:
Enormous and distinguishing? More like compensating, iykwim.
SEPHIROTH GOES AROUND KILLING PEOPLE. WE MUST FOLLOW HIM TO AVENGE MY PAST. zzzzzzzzzzzzz
Fix’d.
Like what? Whether or not she goes on a date with him, which doesn’t effect the game in the least. Fail.
I’ll tell you this, i’ll remember the heroic sacrifice of General Leo in FFVI a hell of a lot longer then either one of them. OH LOOK, SEPHIROTH JUST IMPALED A FLOWER GIRL THROUGH THE BACK. :rolleyes:
The game no doubt had a coronary very early in its life then.
The moron who wrote this article clearly has no idea why it is so popular and mainstream.
Which is shit and removes any element of strategy. No need to think about who to pick. The powerful mage for an area with enemies who are weak vs magic, or vice versa with the fighter class character. You can pick who like and this removes any sense of individuality.
The music is quite decent, to be fair. I didn’t have a problem with it. One Winged Angel is over-rated though.
Complete crap. Anyone of merit will tell you Kefka and Kuja was an infinetly better villians. Again, he fails to see why FFVII is so popular. It is possibly one of the most mainstream games ever made. Also, all FF games have ‘life after them’.
Do you honestly think FFVII would have the popularity it did if it was not marketed as much as it was?
Note how most die-hard fans of FFVII are usually 13-14yr old, impressionable people, vunerable to the influences of what they are told. Hess was right when he said ‘If a lie is repeated enough, it soon becomes truth.’
I dont think there should be a problem with FF7 being so mainstream. It made alot of people who never touched an rpg play this. It made rpgs much more popular in the U.S. Shouldnt FF7 or the people who marketed the game get a pat on the back?
You are right, if a lie is repeated enough, it soon becomes truth. The same can be said for people at this site that call the game utter crap. If it is said enough times in one thread, people are going to start to follow that. Especially if they are ripped a new a$$hole for even mentioning that they like FF7.
Sure it made people start playing RPGs. A lot of people started because of it, but it made the wrong kind of people start playing; the kind of people who we see drooling over the thought of Cloud’s Buster Sword. Those are the sort of people that need to stay at home, stay off the internet, and keep their heads in buckets of ice.
I dont think there is anything wrong with people who like clouds buster sword. I actually know alot of people who were introduced to rpgs through FF7 who think FF8 is much better. They are not the strict fanboy. Not everyone who liked FF7 back in 97 are fanboys. I think because of FF7 making rpgs so popular in the USA, we got a chance to see many rpgs that we wouldnt normally see over here. (some were good, and many were really bad).
I’m trying to make a point.
I actually know alot of people who were introduced to rpgs through FF7 who think FF8 is much better. They are not the strict fanboy. Not everyone who liked FF7 back in 97 are fanboys. I think because of FF7 making rpgs so popular in the USA, we got a chance to see many rpgs that we wouldnt normally see over here. (some were good, and many were really bad).
Even if you know "a lot" of people who were introduced to RPGs through VII that think VIII is the best, it doesn’t change the fact that looking at the morons we get here, most of VII’s fanbase consists of mentally deficient teenagers or emos who spend far too much time indoors.
Care to tell me whats happenening tomorrow?
Even if you know "a lot" of people who were introduced to RPGs through VII that think VIII is the best, it doesn’t change the fact that looking at the morons we get here, most of VII’s fanbase consists of mentally deficient teenagers or emos who spend far too much time indoors.
You’re right but the morons we have here dont equal the millions of people who liked the game. So its hard to actually tell what the FF7 fanbase consists of.
Do you claim to know the millions of people who like VII? Just look in this Forum; how many people that like VII can write cohesive sentences? How many can’t?
I dont claim to know millions of people who like FF7. How many people are in this forum? How many people here support FF7? What Im saying is because of these morons, people cant base the entire FF7 fanbase on them. That is why I posted the link. It shows there are people in the videogame industry that regard FF7 as one of the greatest games of all time. Its not just the moron fanboys that say so.
Sure they did that alright. FF7 made the rpgs more popular and people who marketed the game should get a pat on the back.
But they should be slapped in the face for creating such a game in my opinion.
Whoever wrote that, must be a spastic. It is so obvious he is comparing todays graphics in games to the graphics back in 1997. He probably wouldn’t know a good game if it ran up behind him, gave him a wedgie, kicked him in the balls and shit on his face.
Long story short.. the guy is a loser. Final Fantasy VII is very overrated. It is a good game, but it is just a game. People have to understand that..
Even if you compare the graphics of the older games to FF7, FF7 still sucked, in my opinion.
Stop the Prak impression. I didnt come off as a fanboy. Oh so the author of the article is not considered a credible writer because the worlds greatest game ever made and FF7 went in the same sentence? Thats funny to me.
YES YOU DID.
How?
I you take Shrine’s VII supporting members and surveyed them, you would see that they have severe problems. We can’t look at all of those millions, so we have to take them as a model. I can name a multitude of retards who support VII, but I can only name one or two members who can actually explain why they think VII is a good game.
You cant take 15 people who are FF moron fanboys and say the entire fan base is like that. Its just the people at this site.
As always, you fail. You build a strawman and then proceed to mock it. Real bright. You did come of as a fanboy with your "nyah nyah" tactics and your inability to argue real points, preferring to rope-a-dope around insignifigant points when Bryan’s already torn the article apart.
Alright, take people from other Forums. Would you like that? It just makes the situation look worse.
All I did what post an article for you guys to read, thats it. I didnt try to make this a huge FF7 debate. I have no idea what you’re talking about. What did you do? Try to insult me like a certain shriner (prak). The insult was not needed.
Above it you said "A testament to a great game." That gives us certain messages.
LOL!! That’s hilarious. You wanted to start something, thus the "For all the FF7 haters!!!! enjoy" title. Since you’re completely incapable of putting up a solid argument, you link an article with an "eat this!" attitude.
Were those my intentions? How can you be so sure? I already posted why I put the link. Pay more attention and stop assuming.
By showing us that shitty article about how "other people from the industry" are talking about FF7.
You cant take 15 people who are FF moron fanboys and say the entire fan base is like that. Its just the people at this site.
You know that you don’t have to be here, right?
All I did what post an article for you guys to read, thats it. I didnt try to make this a huge FF7 debate. I have no idea what you’re talking about. What did you do? Try to insult me like a certain shriner (prak). The insult was not needed.
OH REALLY.
JUST LOOK AT YOUR GODDAMN TITLE WOULD YOU.
You know that you don’t have to be here, right?
OH REALLY.
JUST LOOK AT YOUR GODDAMN TITLE WOULD YOU.
I was not wrong in posting the link. No where in the rules does it say I cant d so.
I dont have to be here but none of us do. So your point is?
I explained why I put the link. I dont have to explain of defend it any further.
Get your head out of your posterior and stop flamebaiting and trolling.
edit:
I was not wrong in posting the link. No where in the rules does it say I cant d so.
I dont have to be here but none of us do. So your point is?
I explained why I put the link. I dont have to explain of defend it any further.
It’s quite obvious that you wanted to rile the "ff7 haters!!!!" Claiming other intentions is disingenious at best, dishonest at worst.
Yes, they were.
How can you be so sure? I already posted why I put the link. Pay more attention and stop assuming.
A testament to a great game means that you want us to agree that it’s a great game. And by doing that you ignited a debate that you’re bound to lose. And now you’ve resorted to saying we don’t know your intensions in order to dissuade us from saying that you posted it to egg us on.
You are the one trolling with your "I wanna be Prak" posts. Read the article. If you did, go to another thread. Its thats simple.
I can’t believe you’re still going on with this inane, second-grade nonsense. After this long, I would think even somebody as slow as you would come up with something better.
I thought somebody as slow as you would try to post like yourself. You still refuse to do so and try to post like Prak. Its sad!!!!!!! Just post at another thread if you dont like me or this topic.
No you’re not. But your intentions were.
I dont have to be here but none of us do. So your point is?
Read this:
You cant take 15 people who are FF moron fanboys and say the entire fan base is like that. Its just the people at this site.
You said that as if there is something wrong with the "people at this site". Are you saying the morons here are the people at this site? IF THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK THEN YOU CAN LEAVE MISTER.
I explained why I put the link. I dont have to explain of defend it any further.
You put the link just to show us how other people think about FF7, just so people here can accept the fact that FF7 is great.
Not a very good reason in my opinion. 🙁
Read this:
You said that as if there is something wrong with the "people at this site". Are you saying the morons here are the people at this site? IF THAT IS WHAT YOU THINK THEN YOU CAN LEAVE MISTER.
You put the link just to show us how other people think about FF7, just so people here can accept the fact that FF7 is great.
Not a very good reason in my opinion. 🙁
No I was talking about the FF7 moron fanboys people refer to. I dont insult people at this site. Its not needed. I only do so when provoked. I put the link there to show that not only the so called moron fanboys are the ones saying positive things about FF7. I dont expect everyone to accept it.
You’re absolutely correct. What came over me? Not only morons have good things to say about VII. Occaisionally TeknoBlade and Desert Wolf compliment it from time to time, too.
Ok.
ROFL. You didn’t get it.
I got it.
You don’t need to show us what other people think about FF7.
We have a lot of that already, thank you. 🙁
Liar. Your previous post was (another) pathetic attempt at an insult.
I thought somebody as slow as you would try to post like yourself. You still refuse to do so and try to post like Prak. Its sad!!!!!!!
As I said: pathetic.
Haha. Why? Because he is killing you in this debate?
Haha. Why? Because he is killing you in this debate?
That’s a common theme with iceberg. In our last "conversation," I was labeled a fag about a week before my wedding day. I live in Virginia.
HELLO SEPHCLONE!!!
Haha. Why? Because he is killing you in this debate?
What debate? How is he killing me in anything?
Cyan the only reason I called u a fag was because you were riding on Prak. It was like you were his little side kick agreeing with everything he said. You wrote "Liar. Your previous post was (another) pathetic attempt at an insult. " If you look at the post I said I dont insult people unless provoked. Read a little more carefully. If I’m not mistaken you came in here and began this, therefore I was provoked.
Why dont you care about it?
Damn noob, where is he?
It was sarcasm buddy, learn it.
If you’d make a decent point now and again, you wouldn’t have to resort to such juvenile crap. And at any rate, if it wasn’t needed, why do you bother, even when someone "provokes" you? Contradiction much?
I already have stated what was the purpose of this thread. The article was anothers view on the game. So what decent point are you talking about?
With the insults, of course whatever I say, you’re not going to say is a " Good come back" or a "great insult". Thats a given. I think the same way of yours. I just feel they are not needed. Why do you feel they are needed? Why do you feel like a post should be negative towards another member of this forum? And I’m the juvenile one?
Yes, you are the juvenile one. You’re the one making a post solely to rile the "FF7 haters," then playing all innocent about it. You’re the one who posts juvenile, ban-worthy insults (and gets banned for it), then claims to be the poor victim. Note that those insults came after your arguments got shredded. And then after another insult in this thread, you go on this peacenik "let’s not be negative with one another" trip. Maybe if you were in the least bit consistent, you’d have a bit of credibility and possibly a shred of respect.
Ok point out which insult that would get me banned. I can’t seem to find it. There are none!!!! There was nothing that got shredded because there was no argument. You have no idea what you’re talking about.
Are you really that dumb? It was before the rollback, so it’s little wonder why you can’t find it. You were referring to the very same arguement with your petty little jabs about Prak and I earlier in this thread. Which, in case you missed it, is yet another case of your nonsense. You remember it quite clearly in one page, then on the very next, you demand me point it out, when you know full well that it’s been deleted.
I actually considered reading the entire article, but I could already tell what it was going to say. Just baseless fanboy statement. I got up to the point where they said something about the greatest gaming event in history, Sephiroth murdering Aeris. Yawn.
I never said I had a problem with it, I said that’s why it’s so popular.
You are right, if a lie is repeated enough, it soon becomes truth. The same can be said for people at this site that call the game utter crap. If it is said enough times in one thread, people are going to start to follow that. Especially if they are ripped a new a$$hole for even mentioning that they like FF7.
They get ripped a new asshole because their reasons are totally stupid and thye churn out crap like ‘best game ever’ etc etc. Ftr, I don’t hate this game, it’s flawed in a lot of ways, but I certainly don’t hate it.
Also, the people that think its a bad game have explained why a hell of a lot better then the ones who think its a great game.
Iceberg maby if you forgot the article and gave reasons yourself then you might actually get a debate going.
Ftr Iceberg, DW has always given decent reasons for liking the game, and he doesn’t churn out rubbish like ‘zomg bezt game eva’ etc, and for that I respect him.
Also Iceberg, just because Gamespot does an article on FFVII doesn`t make it the definitive word.
When I said point them out, I was referring to this thread. I know the other threads were deleted. In those other threads I said nothing too extreme to bet me banned. I think I was banned because prak was annoyed. If you remember, the other member Image was backing me up but said nothing extreme, I dont think he even made any insults and he was banned also. It doesnt take too much to get banned here. Its all a matter if a certain mod likes you or not. Its that simple. Plus Im not demanding you to point anything out. I could care less what you do. I dont see what the threads before the rollback have to do with this thread.
"I don’t know what’s funnier, the fact he echoes the opinions of someone else, rather then make his own mind up. Or the fact the opinion he is echoing is totally biased and retarded."
Bryan, in the past I have made reasons why I like the game. You have to admit that most times at this site even mentioning you like the game is enough to stir things up. If I go into detail about how I enjoyed the story (which i did) or the characters (which I really did) it doesnt matter. I loved the FMV’s back in 97 too. I thought certain plot holes should have been fixed, and the in game charcter models were just plain ugly. For me and my personal preference, I liked the story alot, and I really thought the characters were good. I dont know what else there is to be said. Im not trying to echo anyone’s else’s opinion over mine. I put the link so some people or the haters can see that not only the fanboys are capable of praising the game.
Denny, Im not saying because the article says so, its the greatest game ever and that is the definitve word. Look at the above paragraph, I said why I put the link.
@Denny : Sly one eh. I dont ever remember you giving resons for liking it. You usually say you will but dont 🙂
@Denny : Sly one eh. I dont ever remember you giving resons for liking it. You usually say you will but dont 🙂
Well I’ve read some of the plot holes and I cant seem to remember anything to back them up. I played through the game 3 times but it was back in "97-"99. I can’t remember too much, or exact details to counter the holes. I wish I had enough time to play through the game again.
@Denny : Sly one eh. I dont ever remember you giving resons for liking it. You usually say you will but dont 🙂
I`m sure i did once or twice. :/
Still, i couldn`t be arsed to be honest. Sure it isn`t as good as it used to be but i think it`s still a damn fine game.
Ive seen cases where maybe a certain noob would say I love the game etc….. and they get it bad lol.
or because they say sephiroth is awesome with his super long sword lol :smrt:
yes…or simply sephy is the most evil character in final fantasy! 😀
I’ve never seen you post reasons why you like the game, tbqh.
I`m sure i have at some stage. I mean, i`ve been here for a number of years and have posted quite a bit in the FFVII forum. But if i haven`t, i`ll put my hands up and admit it.
But FFVII is in the past, i haven`t touched it for god knows how long. My opinion on why the game was great is irrelevant now. Maybe i`m getting lazy nowadays when it comes to posting anything worthwhile on FFS but as far as stating why i liked FFVII i couldn`t be bothered seeing that it would probably be thrown back in my face.
And don`t get me wrong, i`m not taking a jab at any of you.
I`m not sure what to take from that response. :eye:
My thoughts exactly.
I don’t even know where to begin to laugh at the stupidity of that. Dear me. Also, if you think it’s true, back it up. All that article did was make a lot of retarded statements. You fail for 5 reasons.
1. No one hates the game ‘cos it got commercial'(wtf does that even mean?)
2. I don’t hate the game, I made that clear in my post responding to that article.
3. You’re a moron
4. You’re a moron
5. Did I say you were a moron?
I really got into it back in the day, but i was a mere 13 years old boy then so i was easily swayed by my friend that came up with a lot of crap about the game before it was released.
I enjoyed rpgish games before ff7 so it was great to have a game that would take "80" hours to finish!
I got caught up in the hype 🙁
but i maintain to this day that it is one of my favourite games. Not my favourite game or even final fantasy but it holds a place in my heart as the game that took rpgs to the next level.
– Grandia (The Lost World – Twin Towers)
– Tales of Phantasia PSX (Final Act – Lower Morlia)
– KH : Chain of Memories(1st World Tier 6/6, Monstro)
– FF6 (South Figaro Terra/Locke/Edgar)
– Seiken Densetsu 3 (Palo – The Ghost Ship)
– Tales of Eternia (Seyfert Observatory)
– Tales of Destiny (-Completed-)
…..Ha aha ah hah ahah ah hahahah ahahhahahaha
Oh yes, you "won". How will I ever recover from this crushing defeat?!
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6155700/index.html?tag=topslot;action;1
I haven’t read through all of this thread as unfortunately haven’t got the time at right this second but will make this reply.
I’m not actually an FF7 hater. However I do see the games flaws and so see the flaws in that review. Meaning this post with all due respect it’s full of biased inaccuracies, and was obviously written by somebody who is either a hard core fan of the game themselves, someone who was trying to promote the game for some kind of commercial reason or else by somebody who was guilty of both. There’s other reviews out there on the net alot more accurate and written from an unbiased point of view. I don’t have the time to post any links right now, but once I do then I’ll have a browse and see what I can find.
I’m not actually an FF7 hater. However I do see the games flaws and so see the flaws in that review. Meaning this post with all due respect it’s full of biased inaccuracies, and was obviously written by somebody who is either a hard core fan of the game themselves, someone who was trying to promote the game for some kind of commercial reason or else by somebody who was guilty of both. There’s other reviews out there on the net alot more accurate and written from an unbiased point of view. I don’t have the time to post any links right now, but once I do then I’ll have a browse and see what I can find.
You see, no offense Giga but thats what Im talking about. You say its obviously written by somebody who is either a hard core fan of the game themsleves, or someone who was trying to promote the game for some kind of commercial reason. Why cant it be just someone who thought it was a great game and someone who recognizes what it did for the gaming industry? This is what I mean when I say as soon as someone says anything positive about the game, they are automatically shot down. I also say that is why it is impossible to argue a point about liking the game.
Iceberg, am not saying that it can’t be somebody who thinks it’s great game, or that he/she shouldn’t have liked it. I’m also not putting anyone down for liking it, i enjoyed playing it myself alot when I first tried it out before any of the others in the series. However by making a review like that claiming that FF7 is the best game, the person who wrote it is indicating that it’s the best from a technical point of view. This is inaccurate going by the factors which were neglected in the game.
I dont think the article was a review, it was more of a reflection on the game. What gamespot does is they occasionally induct certain games into " the greatest games of all time". Its sort of there own little hall of fame. My other favorite game Chrono Trigger was inducted also lol.
Why dont you point out what was technicaly wrong with the game? Im sure both I and iceberg would be happy to hear it.
You know whats funny? People look at the FMVs now and say " ewww they are soo ugly". Im pretty sure back in 97 there initial reaction was "wow". I remember seeing the game and thinking the prerendered backrounds were great. Thought the disfigured characters were really ugly though. I wonder what was everyone’s first thought after they saw Ifrit summoned in FF7. What about Knights of the round table? Back in 97, I dont think there was anything really wrong with this game techically.
But ask most of the people who dont like the game, whats wrong with it and alot of times the graphics would be brought up. Graphics dont matter to me at all. I grew up playing atari and nes. With FF7, call me crazy, but I love the story. I love the cast of characters also.
Am very limited at the moment as to how much I can use the internet, so can only come on for short time periods at a time. However if I have the chance will post more tomorrow, am now about to head home from work.
heh, i`d still like to know if that was a little jab at me. 😛
Actually most people ive debated with dont complain about the graphics. Graphics change over time so of course the next game in the series will have better graphics. Its not an arguement at all really.
Am very limited at the moment as to how much I can use the internet, so can only come on for short time periods at a time. However if I have the chance will post more tomorrow, am now about to head home from work.
A likely excuse. :p
heh, i`d still like to know if that was a little jab at me.
I’ll jab you as much as you want later 😉
A likely excuse. :p
Alot of people I have spoken to seem to complain about the graphics. For me, the character models were better but the FF8 graphics werent so much better IMO. You’re right the graphics topic is not an argument, but some people do like to mention them.
Waiting for someone like me to use them on eh? Lets have them so when ever you’re ready. No rush though because I wont be replying to them til later on tonight. 🙂
Alot of people I have spoken to seem to complain about the graphics. For me, the character models were better but the FF8 graphics werent so much better IMO. You’re right the graphics topic is not an argument, but some people do like to mention them.
Well the graphics in FF8 may have been better but the game as a whole was woeful.
Well the graphics in FF8 may have been better but the game as a whole was woeful.
lol, you didnt like FF8 too much? lol IMO it wasnt that great.
The junction system and the story ruined it for me 🙁
Oh dont say junction system too loud. I get a bad feeling in my stomach. I hated it.
I think a very similar point was brought up before the rollback, too. I also think it should be noted that GameFan Magazine, the publication responsible for the "best game ever" quote that prominently appears on the back of the FFVII case, was originally started by the owner/manager of a gaming store in Cali. Here’s an article about that. (http://www.magweasel.com/wiki/GameFan) And this is a pic of the case. (
)
It actually is. She made a thread stating she won’t be around as much. She had near 1000 posts(maybe more) pre-hack iirc.
From a technical point of view(graphics), not much can be said against FF7. We’ve been here before Kev, i’ll save you the hassle of a debate. Unless you really want of course, i’ll happily give you one(and i’ll win just like I do at Poker every time. O burn :p).
Why aren’t you a millionaire by now then?
From a technical point of view(graphics), not much can be said against FF7. We’ve been here before Kev, i’ll save you the hassle of a debate. Unless you really want of course, i’ll happily give you one(and i’ll win just like I do at Poker every time. O burn :p).
I was only joking but now that you mention poker(you poxy bastard) I am so going to clean you out for this.:p
Any time, any place my friend. :p
OOOOOOOOooooooooo!! you gonna take that wolf? lol
Indeed I am. Along with all his chips.
What like last night? With your pocket queens? What did you run into? Eh?
Deary me.
Well I can’t help it! The P.C I normally use at home is still with the engineers at the moment as it stopped working a short while ago, and though I can use internet from work i’m only supposed to use it in my lunch break and seeing as thats when I also check and answer my emails it doesn’t leave me all that much time to post! :p 😉
I’m already near the end of my lunch break already now so unfortunatley can’t go into as much detail as i’d ideally like to, but to give you an example of what i’m talking about in regards to that review, look at what it says about story and character being at the heart of the game. Now here i’m not going to be entirely negative about the game. When starting out playing it I thought both the story and characters had great potential. That was exactly what kept me hooked up to about the middle of the second disk. I thought that it started off well and thought that it had to get even better as events unfolded.
However, as has been touched upon in other threads, it soon becomes apparent after a while that most of the characters have hardly any depth to them. You never really get to discover anything about Clouds true personality other than the fact that he had a thing for Tifa when young, and also that he has feelings for Aeris which is all very well but those things don’t add alot of depth to the story by themselves. Also Barret, Red XIII’s, Vincent, Yuffie’s and Cid’s characters are never fully developed as once you’ve learned their brief background stories you don’t get to find out hardly anything more about them.
Then there’s the overall game story being abandoned in favour of a big fight with Sephiroth and Cloud at the end. After Cloud wins the battle with Sephiroth you get to see that scene with the lifestream but no clear idea as to what actually happens afterwards is given. You see that scene with Red XIII running along with little versions of himselves towards the end but that hardly explains anything. Of course AC came much later, but at that stage a sequel hadn’t even been planned. When you compare FF7’s storyline to some of the other FF stories, such as with FF9 for example, you see that other FF stories in the series have been demonstrated in a much better way.
Then there’s the way it mentions how good the music was. I’m willing to admit that some of the music was ok, but as far as I remember the majority of tunes weren’t of terribly good quality and there’s games with far better music out there, including other games in the final fantasy series.
I could and would go on further but unfortunately can’t right this second. Will add more when I can.
I think a very similar point was brought up before the rollback, too. I also think it should be noted that GameFan Magazine, the publication responsible for the "best game ever" quote that prominently appears on the back of the FFVII case, was originally started by the owner/manager of a gaming store in Cali. Here’s an article about that. (http://www.magweasel.com/wiki/GameFan) And this is a pic of the case. ()
Thanks for including that in here CyanCyde, will take a look when I have a chance =)
Anytime, dearest Giga. 😀
No probs 😉
I’m not actually out to slate the game off just for the sake of it, even though admittedly I did go on a bit in my last post lol, it’s just that I think whoever wrote that review was pretty biased. If it had been an article on FF7 being the most popular game in the series that would have been one thing, but I do think it’s pretty far fetched to say that it’s the best game in the series.
Here’s a link to another review I read. At first glance it might seem that the person is being overly negative, but if you really give the stuff thats said some proper thought it’s actually much more accurate than the majority of internet reviews you come across on the game:
Same here. I was really suprised to come across that one, after reading through so many that said practically the same thing.
omg i know who you’re talking about! tiduslives is a good friend of mine… although we hadn’t talked to each other that much… 🙁
ooohhh….the article is from Gamespot….the same fuckers that gave Devil May Cry 3 an 8 because it was too hard…pssh….what do they know about great games anyway?
they’re just as mainstream as the "adoring fans" that lick the balls of the Square developers while they all jack-off to cloud/sephiroth hentai
as for FF7 making rpgs popular in the US….umm…i’ve been into rpgs since P&P…(paper and pen for you unculture bastards)….THAT’S where REAL rpg’s started in the US…..NOT with FF7….take your "article" and shove it until you have some credible evidence (not third-party banter) to back your arguments
they’re just as mainstream as the "adoring fans" that lick the balls of the Square developers while they all jack-off to cloud/sephiroth hentai
as for FF7 making rpgs popular in the US….umm…i’ve been into rpgs since P&P…(paper and pen for you unculture bastards)….THAT’S where REAL rpg’s started in the US…..NOT with FF7….take your "article" and shove it until you have some credible evidence (not third-party banter) to back your arguments
Oh no.
yeah…i know i probably just opened up a can of worms by mentioning pen-and-paper…but eh, it’s gonna happen anyway
so either it’s bait for haters or he’s doing it to spite the said haters…
either way…the article is even more baseless than the arguments posed by these mindless fanatics
Yet he denied any such doings. It should be noted that after this "discussion," this thread’s creator tried another thread, very similar to this, where IGN says that FFVII’s music is the bestest EVAR because of One Winged Angel. When it was pointed out just how biased and crappy that article was, he didn’t respond, and hasn’t posted in any of the FF forums since.
very interesting…..i saw the article as well….i’ve always been wary of reviews by ANYBODY….who’s to say that they know what i like or how much somebody’s paying them to write complete crap…..oh well…hopefully the thread starter will finally find something to have a logical, well-directed discussion with us about this commonly disputed topic
so either it’s bait for haters or he’s doing it to spite the said haters…
either way…the article is even more baseless than the arguments posed by these mindless fanatics
I know. What’s funny is he picked out an article that was more or less total bullshit.
I intend on being a regular here…at least right now i do. I have no intentions of arguing every little thing that arises. But i will if i have to.
I will say that if you’re planning to stick around here as a regular member you’ll soon realise that while it’s up to everyone whether or not they argue/debate a subject at any given time, that alot of the regulars often do and that if you happen to post anything that someone else notices and wishes to comment further on then they will. Alot of us here can be pretty blunt and will say straight away if we disagree with something. That can be intimidating to new members at times, although once you’ve stuck around a while you’ll come to see it as the norm.
Oh my, that’s one of the reasons why EoFF thinks we’re bad people. :laugh:
It gives me a warm feeling inside to know that you guys love me enough to talk about me when Im gone.
Prak what you have to understand is being competent means shit to you because you always have to be right. Theres a difference, and you should know that.
And chunky its not that I didnt want to post. I just got married and I have a new job so computer access for me was close to impossible. I did peek my head in a few times to read some threads but there was nothing too interesting so I didnt post.
I only posted the ign music link because I felt some people would be interested in seeing it. I dont even listen to FF music so I have no arguments or opinions to back up anything on that list. So know what your talking about before you spew garbage.
Uhh, why post something you can’t back up then? And judging by the thread title, you made this thread with the belief that the article would blow all of the arguements that FF7 is a mediocre game out of the water.
Ok, if you say so. Just read earlier posts in this thread. I stated why I posted the link. Sorry if the title comes off wrong.
hmmmmm nope thats not what I was trying to do.
GREATEST GAME EVER I SAY NO DEBATE NEEDED
GREATEST GAME EVER I SAY NO DEBATE NEEDED
i love the sarcasm
iceberg…have you READ what you’ve posted in this thread thus far?
"i agree with the article’s author, therefore it’s credible" bullshit will net you no credibility whatsoever
Al Gore also tried to slyly say that he invented the Internet….so if you agree with him, then it’s credible?….i’ll leave that to you to think about
so why don’t you and d_empiror get together for some ghey love with Richard Simmons and Christopher Lowell…because as far as i can see it….i’m sure that some people think this when they read your shithole of an arguement
I nearly woke up my wife roffling at the irony of that. I rarely listen to FF music when I’m not playing the games (the occasional FFIX MIDI notwithstanding), so it’s not like I’ve heard every track of every soundtrack ever produced. At any rate, I pointed out the blatnant bias in that IGN article; somebody who’s never picked up a controller would see the bias. I love your selective literacy.
Uh, it certainly seems that’s exactly what you were trying to do.
It wasnt a potshot ass. Stop trying to read between the lines.
Its just funny. I posted the FF7 link to show people that not only fanboys regard FF7 as one of the best games of all time. Its obvious that people who hate the game will do anything to discredit anything which holds FF7 in high regards. I just find that to be funny.
Z.zetsumei stop being an ass. Your statement was bullshit. Stop loooking for attention.
And again as for the ign article link. it was for the sole purpose of people seeing igns list of top 10 ff soundtracks. Thats it!!! Thats all it was. I could care less if one winged angel was number 1. Like I said I dont listen to FF music on my sparetime only when I play the games. And even when I do play the game, I mostly mute the volume and listen to my ipod. So with that being said I hold no favoritism to any of the FF soundtracks.
And since Im labeled an ass for posting the article, oh what the hell here is another link
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/197341.asp?q=final%20fantasy%207 enjoy!!!!!
Its just funny. I posted the FF7 link to show people that not only fanboys regard FF7 as one of the best games of all time. Its obvious that people who hate the game will do anything to discredit anything which holds FF7 in high regards. I just find that to be funny.
Z.zetsumei stop being an ass. Your statement was bullshit. Stop loooking for attention.
And again as for the ign article link. it was for the sole purpose of people seeing igns list of top 10 ff soundtracks. Thats it!!! Thats all it was. I could care less if one winged angel was number 1. Like I said I dont listen to FF music on my sparetime only when I play the games. And even when I do play the game, I mostly mute the volume and listen to my ipod. So with that being said I hold no favoritism to any of the FF soundtracks.
i also find it funny that you’re so hypocritical…..you’re telling ME to stop looking for attention?
go die in a hole bitch, cuz i’ll be an ass whenever and wherever i like
if you don’t like my sick sense of humor go cry to your mommy so i can rub some trees on her to make ugly-sticks
on a more serious note, the views in an article are an expressed opinion by ONE person…whether or not it’s in accord with the views of other is irrelevant…opinion articles express the opinion of the AUTHOR and not the readers
you’re probably discrediting everything i say in your mind, but i could care less
and stop with the enjoy crap…those posted links hold no weight when there’s always a counter argument…this was posted earlier….read the Bottom Line section
http://www.mobygames.com/game/playstation/final-fantasy-vii/reviews/reviewerId,44055/
I could care less if they are fanboys or not. If they like the game, then good for them I could care less.
But when fanboys yell out, "dude no ff is better than 7 because sephiroth and cloud" it gets annoying and something must be said to put them into shame.
That’s why fanboys are constantly targeted as lame, because they are in fact fanboys.
I could care less if God himself came down and regarded FFVII as the greatest game ever, I would still think otherwise.
But when fanboys yell out, "dude no ff is better than 7 because sephiroth and cloud" it gets annoying and something must be said to put them into shame.
That’s why fanboys are constantly targeted as lame, because they are in fact fanboys.
I could care less if God himself came down and regarded FFVII as the greatest game ever, I would still think otherwise.
Thats cool and I respect you for your opinion.
Oh you did? When was this? I cant seem to recall.
But, it was about FFVII.
Not like it matters.
But, it was about FFVII.
Not like it matters.
So why did you mention it?
because even if he did, you still wouldn’t be able to recall it
Its just funny. I posted the FF7 link to show people that not only fanboys regard FF7 as one of the best games of all time.
You see, my asinine punching bag, that is exactly what a potshot is–nevermind the fact that the first two articles you posted were completely biased. If you had a shred of objectivity, you’d see that. If you had a shred of competency at backing up your views (which you should know you need at FFS), you wouldn’t have posted the links anyway.
Your dog = your mom.
Chunky chunky chunky!!! You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about haha!!!!
If that were true, zetsumei wouldnt be able to type.
word…OPPOSABLE THUMBS BIZATCH!
and if chunky doesn’t know what he’s talking about, then why don’t you explain it Iceberg since you’re SOOooo knowledgable about everything….or so you think
by the way….stop committing incest…that’s disgusting
Your dog = your mom.
…is followed by this mind-numbingly stupid piece of drivel:
Chunky chunky chunky!!! You have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about haha!!!!
In other words, iceberg, the only one not laughing at you, is you.
…is followed by this mind-numbingly stupid piece of drivel:
In other words, iceberg, the only one not laughing at you, is you.
Thats fine with me. You think I lose sleep at night because an asshole like you doesnt laugh at what I post in a forum? Trust me I dont.
Whenever did I put forth any thought that you lose sleep, O illiterate wonder? It’s really great how you make up totally irrelevant stuff to try and insult me, when the best thing you can do is "ass," and its big brother, "asshole." It’s even better when you’ve bragged in this very thread how insults aren’t even needed. Perhaps if your head weren’t so firmly enlodged in your anus, you’d understand a thing or two.
OMG you are such an idiot.
It was a funny movie. Have you seen it?
And your pirate sig is classic.
Thats cool. And you are entitled to that opinion.
hmm….is that what he’d look like if someone dangled a piece of FFVII memorabilia in front of him?
for the remainder of topic (this goes for everyone), stay relevant or stay out.
how about the lack of comparison with other games?…some benchmark from which this article compared FFVII to?
things like that make all the difference in a credible article/argument
things like that make all the difference in a credible article/argument
I dont think it was an argument per se. At the time FF7 came out it was revolutionary. Thats just obvious. It does show its wrinkles now but I think it was just a retrospective on a game that heavily influenced rpgs that we play today.
Fix’d
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6155700/index.html?tag=topslot;action;1
Stop giving FF VII an even worse name then it already has. thank you.
At the risk of "shitting up" a thread (when trolls can go on for weeks with no punishment), I have to ask why you keep beating that dead horse. What’s revolutionary about it? The graphics were okay–nowhere near revolutionary. Tekken 2 was released a full year earlier and boasted superior graphics. Its FMV’s were far better, as well, so the graphics (which many folks do prattle on about) aren’t it. Was it the battle system? While Materia was something new, calling that revolutionary is nothing short of a joke. The Limit Breaks were (sort of) new and neat, but revolutionary? Puh-lease! In all honesty, FFVII’s battle system is pretty much a pared-down version of FFVI’s. So…what’s revolutionary? The story? It wasn’t anything special. For every "zomg, Sephy killed Aeris!" moment, there’s two or three Kefka moments. So…what is so ZOMG revolutionary? I want to know–I played it at launch too, and I wasn’t THAT impressed even then.
An item carrying the trait of revolutionry means it is a sharp turn of the original.
So stating the battle system is revolutionary from the classics is nothing but obvious.
The battle system was totally different from ANY of the original classics.
Was FFVII’s battle system revolutionary?
Yes.
Was FFVII’s battle system to best out of FFI-FFVII?
No, it sucked.
Yes.
No. The ATB had been done since FFIV. Even Chrono Trigger had it.
Since you clearly stated above that was not revolutionary at all.
edit because I was watching MNF and not paying attention:
The "instant gratification" is basically the sole difference between espers and materia, to be honest.
Look, I am not going to get in a heated argument over FFVII’s Materia System because honestly you probably do know it better than I.
But no other Final Fantasy game had battle system identical to that of FFVII, therefore making it different and revolutionary for the Final Fantasy series.
But no other Final Fantasy game had battle system identical to that of FFVII, therefore making it different and revolutionary for the Final Fantasy series.
No two "systems" in the entire FF series are identical. Calling any one (whether it be FFVII’s or, say, FFIX’s) "revolutionary" for that fact is quite retarded. Following your brand of dislogic, just about every single game ever made is revolutionary, because there aren’t many games (in general) that use identical "systems."
Now to back up what I said in my last post (as MNF is over and I can concentrate).
FFVII’s Materia system is a cheapened version of FFVI’s esper system. Both systems allow you to pick who gets to cast what spells. Both Materia and Espers give certain statistical bonuses to your characters (Materia also nerfs other stats, while Espers do not).
The Esper system is based on long-term, permanent effects that ultimately makes your characters far stronger, with extra stat boosts at level ups and permanently learning spells–Espers are meant to stay equipped for a substantial period of time so that characters can get the most from said Esper. This has the added side effect of making each character even more unique than their innate skills already make them. Unless you take a ton of time to grind Magic Points, only a couple of your staple characters will have overlapping spell lists.
The Materia system is based on short-term, "gimme the effect now" thinking. The main long-term effect of Materia use is mastering Materia, which allows you to make obscene amounts of Gil with almost no trouble at all. What characters you have in your party is insignificant, because you’ve always the same spells and abilities available for your chosen three, whatever three it may be. Thus, eight or nine playable characters is quite a waste. Character growth is practically insignificant, as well, as evidenced by the YouTube vid of a level 7 Tifa wiping out Emerald Weapon. Materia dumbs down the preparation process for bosses, especially when you have save points less than a dozen steps from said bosses, like the Materia Keeper. Once you figure out what sort of spells you need, you can load your game immediately before the fight and merely swap in whatever element you want for the next ten minutes. Actual planning and party composition are completely superfluous thanks to Materia as a result.
To give you the short version, something can only be considered revolutionary if it causes a change in procedures, mentalities, and so on. FFVII was built entirely on existing systems and did not have a direct impact on future game development. The only things that distinguish it from any other games out there are elements that have not been commonly replicated. Therefore, it is NOT revolutionary in any shape, form, or fashion.
Has everyone learned how to properly use the word now? Good. Class dismissed.
You even said it yourself, the Esper system is different from the Materia system because the Esper System lets you learn permanent spells.
(Wow, just like the other FF’s)
The Materia systems is for short term use and such.
(Wow, which was not presented until FFVII.)
Now if you would actually read what I am trying to get at maybe you would shut the hell up.
I would belittle you more but school starts soon.
EDIT: (For Prak)
Revolutionary means outside the normal procedure and a sudden or complete marked change.
Now, the game was not that revolutionary for the reasons you stated above.
But never in a FF game was there such a shit system as Materia.
This is what I am trying to conclude.
I would belittle you more but school starts soon.
Maybe if you got to your point in fewer than three convoluted posts, we wouldn’t have that problem. Also, if that was an attempt at a flame, you’ll need to do better than that.
But never in a FF game was there such a shit system as Materia.
This is what I am trying to conclude.
Cute, but untrue on two counts.
I was going to be a smart-ass and just say, " FFVII was revolutionary because never did a battle system suck that much ass."
But then I started pointing out things in ChunkyMunky’s posts that I necessarily did not agree with.
Basically what I am trying to say is that you really cannot compare smilarities between the Esper and Materia system for reasons ChunkyMunky states above.
The Esper system is based on long-term, permanent effects
The Materia system is based on short-term, "gimme the effect now" thinking
It is for these reasons that the Materia system is different. Just like how in FFII you can buy tomes and equip them on any character, but in FFI only Mages can learn certain magic at that.
So in a way, FFI and FFII have a similiar system, but for the most part FFII was totally new and "revolutionary."
The same goes for the Esper and Materia systems. I still dislike the Materia system, but it is still a complete new system that allowed "short-term" magic effects.
EDIT: My mistake, never has there been such a shit system as FFVIII’s Junctioning.
But going from the FF Classics to FFVII the battle system was new.
Because although the classics had differences in their battle systems, it stayed pretty much consistent.
But then there comes FFVII and tosses up everything.
EDIT: For Prak again.
You are right, but after FFVII new battle systems were introduced with each game. That could be considered a revolution from the classic FFs.
The Esper system is based on long-term, permanent effects
The Materia system is based on short-term, "gimme the effect now" thinking
Which is exactly what I said and ChunkyMunky secretly agreed, and for some reason his statements about this have been unoticed.
When I was talking about revolution, I meant the actual Final Fantasies had changed not the entire RPG video game market.
Also, ChunkyMunky had put those two thoughts into the idea of a battle system nowhere near character development so that is how I took it.
When I was talking about revolution, I meant the actual Final Fantasies had changed not the entire RPG video game market.
Very well, but you’d still be hard-pressed to uphold that view under scrutiny.
Also, ChunkyMunky had put those two thoughts into the idea of a battle system nowhere near character development so that is how I took it.
I’m not assigning blame for the error. I’m just pointing it out.
Just for the record, I still disagree with ChunkyMunky because his side of the debate was just as much all over the place as mine.
the other half would be the thread starter…just being here and reading fanboy posts makes me feel like my IQ’s dropping
Wrong. The gameplay was standard FF-fare. ATB battles (which had been done since FFIV), magic, summons, and a fanfare when you win. As for the graphics, I’ve said it a jillion times, but Tekken 2 was released over a year before FFVII and it’s FMV’s are far superior. Other than that, you’re drooling all over FFVII because it was the first FF with ZOMG 3d graphics. Big deal. It was a natural thing, and a long time in coming, seeing as how pretty much everything by then was 3d (Castlevania: SotN being the one notable exception).
I know a whole lot of people that bought a ps1 for FF7. Millions of people cant be wrong. There was something special about the game and not only fanboys are saying good things about it. The game got rave reviews and I think the article shows that years after, the game can be looked upon as one of the best. Some of these opinions even come from other developers. They even praise the game.
While I’m sure some developers have commented favorably on FFVII, I’ve yet to hear of one putting it anywhere near the pedestal fanboys like you put it. As for the article linked in the original post, its obvious bias has been pointed out several times in this thread. The fact that Squeenix and Sony threw truckloads of money at magazines, which would obviously put pressure on the reviewers, has also been covered. As for the sales figures, that’s more or less a result of the mega advertising blitz that Squeenix and Sony put on. Millions of people bought FFVII because they didn’t know there was anything else.
With that being said, its was a great game. I dont understand why that is denied so often.
It’s "denied so often" because the game has glaring flaws, even for a game released in ’97. I know you’re new and all, but if you did even a little bit of reading here, you’d see what kind of flaws I’m referring to. I tend to be one of those "FFVII haters" because I really rail against it (and FFVIII, to a lesser degree) being unjustly put upon this golden pedestal.
The same applies to Hitler. Wanna put him on a pedestal now?
there was only one thing i gotta give props to Hitler for…
how could he get a large group of followers to kill his own people?…that takes some know-how, so he HAD to have been smarter than the average FFVII fankid to pull that off
While I’m sure some developers have commented favorably on FFVII, I’ve yet to hear of one putting it anywhere near the pedestal fanboys like you put it. As for the article linked in the original post, its obvious bias has been pointed out several times in this thread. The fact that Squeenix and Sony threw truckloads of money at magazines, which would obviously put pressure on the reviewers, has also been covered. As for the sales figures, that’s more or less a result of the mega advertising blitz that Squeenix and Sony put on. Millions of people bought FFVII because they didn’t know there was anything else.
It’s "denied so often" because the game has glaring flaws, even for a game released in ’97. I know you’re new and all, but if you did even a little bit of reading here, you’d see what kind of flaws I’m referring to. I tend to be one of those "FFVII haters" because I really rail against it (and FFVIII, to a lesser degree) being unjustly put upon this golden pedestal.
I dont know why you would label me a fanboy. Is it everytime someone mentions FF7, and the word good in a sentence they are automatically labeled a fanboy? That word gets thrown around too often and its not used properly. I didnt say OMG THE BEST GAME EVER!!!!! CLOUD ROCKS!!!!!!!!!! I stated what millions of people around the world are saying. Majority rules.
Do you have a point? George W. Bush won a majority of the popular vote in ’04. As for you being a fanboy, you’re defending FFVII despite every logical arguement against it–that rather makes it a dead giveaway.
Bush and a ff game cannot be compared. Bad example. Im just saying give credit where its due. Logical arguments? Saying that square and sony payed off magazines so they were forced to give it good reviews? Wheres the evidence of that? That doesnt seem logical. So with that being said, you are implying that sony or squeenix paid off ign to write that ariticle iceberg linked? If you hate that game thats fine with me but I find it silly to try to find anything you can to discredit FF7.
and
http://psx.ign.com/articles/080/080401p1.html
Compare. See how FF8 was ranked above FF7 despite it being inferior as a game to FF7, while FF7 got an almost perfect review. Inconsistency is their biggest giveaway.
Also, note how games like Valkyrie profile and Star Ocean are nowhere in their listing. Valkyrie Profile and Star Ocean 2 are given considerably lower ratings compared to FF7. 9.1/10 and 8.8/10 respectively. SaGa Frontier is given 7.0/10, Tales of Eternia is given 8.5/10 and Alundra/Alundra 2 are given 8.5 and 7.7 respectively. Interestingly, all the PS1 FF titles are given scores 9/10 or above.
PS : Vagrant Story : 9.6/10 LOL While I like this game a lot, it suffers from meticulous shortcomings and doesn’t deserve such a near-perfect score.
Hey, good job on ignoring posts in this very thread that detail why FFVII isn’t great. Like the one that I had, that was pretty close to a page, that you almost completely ignored in favor of "well lots more people like it so nyah nyah!" At any rate, why should FFVII be given credit? Because it sold a kajillion copies? Okay, FFVII is probably the most popular of the FF’s, if not the most popular console RPG of all time. However, as I’ve said a kajillion and one times, popularity does not equal quality. Look at Dubya and Scientology.
So with that being said, you are implying that sony or squeenix paid off ign to write that ariticle iceberg linked? If you hate that game thats fine with me but I find it silly to try to find anything you can to discredit FF7.
Once again, you ignore what’s been posted at least once–like my position on FFVII. Not to mention that it’s been explicitly stated just how biased that article is. Not only that, you fail because we were all referring to the game’s initial reviews in magazines 9-plus years ago, not some half-assed, pander-to-the-fanboy-readership "best game EVAR" article.
In conclusion, if you want the "haters" here to give FFVII anything close to the recognition you obviously want it to have, you’d better give us far better reasons than "lol a kajillion people bought it" and "zomg magazines gave it awesome reviews."
and
http://psx.ign.com/articles/080/080401p1.html
Compare. See how FF8 was ranked above FF7 despite it being inferior as a game to FF7, while FF7 got an almost perfect review. Inconsistency is their biggest giveaway.
Also, note how games like Valkyrie profile and Star Ocean are nowhere in their listing. Valkyrie Profile and Star Ocean 2 are given considerably lower ratings compared to FF7. 9.1/10 and 8.8/10 respectively. SaGa Frontier is given 7.0/10, Tales of Eternia is given 8.5/10 and Alundra/Alundra 2 are given 8.5 and 7.7 respectively. Interestingly, all the PS1 FF titles are given scores 9/10 or above.
PS : Vagrant Story : 9.6/10 LOL While I like this game a lot, it suffers from meticulous shortcomings and doesn’t deserve such a near-perfect score.
i totally disagree with any ratings given from ign…they’re the same freaks that ragged on the 360 and said that the PS3 was something to look forward to when we all know that Sony’s known for releasing faulty products (look at the first gen PS2s and the massive battery recalls)
i also hate the fact that Valkyrie Profile got a much lower score from IGN than FFVII, and it bothers me to no end why Star Ocean 2 got anything lower than a 9.3 when both games are far superior no matter how much you pretty-up FFVII
Why? If you’re fine with other people not liking it or considering it bad then why should it suprise you they aren’t inclined to give it credit?
Anyway it’s not hard to work out why the game is as overrated as it is once you start comparing it to other games. The fact you’ve felt it’s necessary to say thats silly suggests to me you’re somewhat misinformed on what makes a good game. If you took more of an open minded attitude to what others have said in here then, believe it or not, you’d actually learn something.
What I think he meant is what I mentioned earlier….
The flaws and discredits you can attribute to FF7 don’t really matter to him, since he loves the game regardless of those….
I’m not exactly sure what would be "overrated" and what would be "correctly-rated", but I think it has something to do with more people enjoying it than a person believes that it deserves.
So then, following that definition, the game would be overrated to anyone… Because like, there are many people who like the game a lot, and the total enjoyment of many people is greater than that of one person, so then, for every person FFVII would have a total enjoyment and praise greater than they gave it, and therefore it would be overrated. >>
You’re referring to my definition? What would be more correct?
I didn’t mean that seriously–since that part I wrote on "overrated" was just a play on the meaning of the words "over" and "rated"….
And of course it couldn’t be the "best, greatest ever"! Do you think they could ever really mean that seriously…? I think they really meant "best, greatest ever in my experience"…
Mm, and maybe that shows their lack of experience….
But you could like, say, "Yeah, FF7 wasn’t that bad. But take a look at THIS!" and show them a bunch of RPGs that you believe blows FF7’s ass away. And then they can decide….
<<
If they still say FF7 is the best, then it’s just a little bias….<< I personally could never place any of the games I played as "best", since they all offered so much enjoyment in so many different ways….
Just don’t assault them too much with "It’s not the best" such that they’d think they’re under attack and try to defend themselves and cling to the idea of "It’s the best"….
What I think he meant is what I mentioned earlier….
The flaws and discredits you can attribute to FF7 don’t really matter to him, since he loves the game regardless of those….
If thats the case then, as I mentioned earlier in the other thread, then really he should have had enough sense not to post in here. The thread isn’t about being dogmatic. If everybody took that attitude in a debate then nobody would ever get anywhere or learn anything. It’s factual knowledge which contributes and is important.
I’m not exactly sure what would be "overrated" and what would be "correctly-rated", but I think it has something to do with more people enjoying it than a person believes that it deserves.
So then, following that definition, the game would be overrated to anyone… Because like, there are many people who like the game a lot, and the total enjoyment of many people is greater than that of one person, so then, for every person FFVII would have a total enjoyment and praise greater than they gave it, and therefore it would be overrated. >>
Not the case at all. Good things have been said about the game which are completely inaccurate, as in the examples Joan gave above. Thats why it’s over rated. If you’re still not too sure about this then it’s a good idea to get some knowledge on what goes into the making of a good RPG game and a closer examination of the game. With a little common sense and observation, it soon becomes clear that alot of the things quoted as being the games strengths are either incorrect or exaggerated.
When I quoted it, Norse’s name wasn’t there. Thus the confusion. 🙂
but its far from my favorite. The game was a great rpg in IMO. I don’t
see how it is bias to like it if its all a matter of opinion. The
reverse can be said for the people who hate the game. Their bias is
fueled by their hate for the game and no matter what arguments or
comments are made, they will always talk negative and try to counter
any positive statement in ff7s favor. Its so much to the point where it was
stated that square paid off magazines to give the game great ratings. Ok
even if that were true what would be the purpose of gamespot putting ff7
as one of the best games of all time 9 yrs later? What benefit do they
get out of it now? If 10 people review the game, mind you these are
people who get paid to review games, and 9 of those reviewers give it
almost perfect score, that means its a great game. Same goes for any
game. In ff7s case, it got rave reviews. That’s just stating the
obvious. Now any writer from a magazine or website who praises the game
today is a fanboy and they are bias? They know more about games and have
played more games than any of us. If anyone would know how to criticize a
game it would be them. They are professionals. Are they ever wrong, yes.
But if the majority of the reviewers give a game great scores, what
does that mean? It means its a good game. Same goes for movies, music etc. Not just games.
Oh so we are not going to attempt to act like adults here? First name calling then what, you’re going to pinch me? Come on grow up.
Ok if square paid of magazines to give FF7 good reviews, where is the proof of that? Thats what Im saying, that statement can not be proved and leads to my point of people saying anything to discredit the game. What didnt you understand?
God cannot be proven.
Does he not exist?
Does he not exist?
No one really knows. Thats a really bad comparison.
Can anyone prove that theory about square paying people off? If not then it holds no relevance.
Can anyone prove that theory about square paying people off? If not then it holds no relevance.
agreed
Can anyone prove that theory about square paying people off? If not then it holds no relevance.
Exactly, point proven.
lol.
God could be a giant flying Spagetti monster
Hmm have to admit that’s a good question. While i’ve no doubt that what ChunkyMunkey said is valid, unfortunatley I don’t know the answer to that one…
Oh…! XP I see….
I never was really clear with what exactly people mean by "overrated". So it’s like, when people say things inaccurately in a better light than it actually is? So people who say that "They plotline was very good" are overrating it right? (Since by what I’ve heard you guys say, the plotline is not good)
Mm….so "overrated" can only occur when others give an evaluation of the game; the game cannot be inherently "overrated".
Is this correct?
So–…are your complaints about "overrated"ness due to the praise that people give the game, rather than the game itself…and the problem you have with FF7 isn’t with the actual game, but with the fanbase?
The first paragraph should be–
"I was never really clear with what people meant by "overrated". So…it is when people say things inaccurately in a better light than it actually is, right? So, by your account(s), people who say that "The plotline was very good" are overrating it (Since by what I’ve heard you guys say, the plotline is not good)"
The second paragraph makes enough sense, I think…>>
Is the problem you have with FF7 against its fanbase? Or against the game itself…?
I never was really clear with what exactly people mean by "overrated".
If something is over rated then it means it’s considered to be better than it truly is. Thats certainly the case with FF7. Many fans of the game disagree, but if you take a really good look into the differences between a good and bad game, then it’s not hard to see that it’s a fact. If FF7 was truly as good as so many people say it is then no describing it as being a really good game woudn’t be over rating it. As things are though, most of the things which are described in the media as reasons that FF7 is a really good game are wrong. That’s why it’s an overrated game.
…SO.
For you people–is your problem against the fanbase, or the game?
><
I wish the fanpeople knew this….
I mean like…their proclamations of them liking the game are making other people like the game less.
I think they want to get other people to agree with them or something, but they’re kind of having the opposite effect….>>
And you wonder why FFVII has such a big fanbase?
Ah–…
About Soul Calibur…maybe it’s because as a game, it’s more complex than FFVII, so then there would be fewer fanboys that are like that…..
Hmm….
Is there anything that we can do about this "mindless fan" syndrome? Or do we still have no cure as of now?
That’s not curing them…! That’s like, killing them!
….XD
<< And no! I would not enjoy seeing that at all. Not one bit!!
I understand that point but saying that is really saying that everyone who is a credible reviewer is wrong. I really find it hard to see why it was given such a high rating from the majority of reviewers if its a mediocre game. There were a lot of things that could have been fixed in the game, but with every game there is always room for improvement. The game is definitley above any average rpg.
You have no idea what age or how many ff games each reviewer played prior to ff7. This is an example of what Im talking about. Why is it have to be some lame excuses to why the game was reviewed so highly. Its like if you guys are reaching for anything to say. Its nothing against you but just look at the post. None of it is factual.
Its just funny how Ive never seen any other game’s scores in question as much as I see FF7’s. The general consensus of this forum seems to lead toward calling each positive FF7 reviewer a fanboy or even say that they are bias. And these are people who play game and review them for a living. I find it really funny. I respect anyone’s opinions. So if you were to say hey that game sucks and state reasons, I respect that. And Ive seen may shriners do that. But to make up excuse after excuse for the high scores of FF7 is really silly. Dont you think? Honestly?
EDIT: VIII got extremely high reviews as well. Does that make it the second or third best Final Fantasy? IX got lower scores than both part of the time. Does this make sense?
EDIT: VIII got extremely high reviews as well. Does that make it the second or third best Final Fantasy? IX got lower scores than both part of the time. Does this make sense?
I agree about the bad grammar lol. But I think the language of the non fanboys happens to be worse as they tend to be really disrespectful and all they do is insult. Put the fanbase aside and set your views on the game. Not the people who represent it. What you have to see if FF7 has proven to be mediocre by people who post at this forum. FF7 got high reviews by respectable websites and magazines alike. Its up to the person to decide if they will take that into account. The numbers dont lie and the ridiculing is not needed.
As for FF8, I liked the game but its far from my favorite RPG. I really love FF9. I wish the game did get higher ratings but it didnt. There is nothing we can do to change it.
People on the shrine, Prak most notably, look at the plot of FFVII from a literary standpoint, pointing out in what ways it is bad storytelling. I have never seen a critical review of the game from a "credible reviewer" that cites any specific examples; reviewers typically avoid spoilers, which are essential in arguing the effectiveness of the plot, as anyone familiar with literature would know. If you don’t bring everything together well with a good ending, then your plot just sucks balls, whether there’s good writing in it or not. Also, most of the buyers of video games are simply looking at reviews for what some guy thought about the game and not the details of the different qualities of it.
If there’s an example of an article that uses specific examples to critique the storyline of FFVII, post it here. The article you posted at the beginning did no such thing. All it did was briefly describe the introduction and say a few things about the characters without backing them up. That is why you cannot say magazine or internet articles on a game are an indicator of its quality; the article is just some guy stating his opinion. Discussing character development, the smoothness or awkwardness of dialogue, the plot twists or lack thereof, and the connectivity of the plot is discussing facts to support your conclusion about the game’s quality. Sure, quality is subjective to a degree, but it is not completely subjective like many people argue.
Even though it’s not exactly one of the most critically good games, it also takes knowledge to know what’s universally appealing to everyone–something that’s easy to approach…
Normally, the "dumb gamers" that you guys talk about wouldn’t sit still long enough for a classic RPG, and lots of them say that RPGs are boring and dumb, and all that stuff. But FFVII was an RPG that was able to draw those types of people in….
FFVII touches the most base parts of the mind in a way that other RPGs haven’t…and that’s the easiest part for many people to relate to. It doesn’t stimulate the higher mind as much as other RPGs might have…but if it did, it wouldn’t really be FFVII anymore.
If that’s the case, then people are far stupider then I could ever have imagined.
Even though it’s not exactly one of the most critically good games, it also takes knowledge to know what’s universally appealing to everyone–something that’s easy to approach…
Not really. It’s pretty easy to distinguish what games one person will like copmpared to what another will like.
Normally, the "dumb gamers" that you guys talk about wouldn’t sit still long enough for a classic RPG, and lots of them say that RPGs are boring and dumb, and all that stuff. But FFVII was an RPG that was able to draw those types of people in….
Those are the types of people that we ridicule because they can’t put a sentence toghether and act all high and mighty simply because they beat a game my 8-year old brother has beaten. People like that need to stay at the malls and keep snorting their shit.
FFVII touches the most base parts of the mind in a way that other RPGs haven’t…and that’s the easiest part for many people to relate to.
I think Prak was the first to bring up the avatar concept involving characters from VII. He pretty much said that the characters don’t have much of a personality and don’t develop much because that allows gamers to associate themselves with the characters and feel as if they are part of it. The idea maeks a lot of sense considering how many people say that they like Cloud because he reminds them of how they were as kids.
It doesn’t stimulate the higher mind as much as other RPGs might have…but if it did, it wouldn’t really be FFVII anymore.
You’re right, if it stimulated a "higher mind", it wouldn’t be VII. But really, is that trully a bad thing?
With Ratchet, the story doesnt take itself serious. I thinks its done that way on purpose. The controls arent too bad and the gameplay itself is good IMO and ive played all the ratchet games including the cell phone ones. To sit theer and level up each gun to make then stronger is great. IMO its a great platformer and its as a fun multiplayer. Maybe that game wasnt the best example.
I haven’t played Ratchet myself, so I don’t have anything to say about that…XP
Mm, but you’re right too, Kailas….
I mean this completely seriously–you’re probably "above" FFVII and enjoying it the way those people do, as are most of the people whom FF7-fanpeople term as "FF7 haters".
I don’t think I’m above that though….
…..
But I’m alright with that….I don’t mind enjoying things that are on a simpler level.
I like to find beauty in everything or at least something positive out of everything (though sometimes I like to do it just in defiance of the people who think that it’s the worst thing in the world >>). I think there’s something wonderful about everything, even the simpler things that people might be cynical about. There might even be something wonderful about being cynical, too. I just…can’t stand it when people don’t notice those good things, or take those things for granted….
You trumpet said reviews about and then say "It’s up to the person to decide whether or not to take that into account." In the context of this discusssion, your precious reviews are either relevant or irrelevant. You contradict yourself by suddenly putting the reviews in this grey area.
So its safe to assume a game like halo 2, which was heavily marketed, was only given good reviews because it would be in the best interest of the magazines and websites who review it? Or is that just the case with FF7?
Despite the fact that I like Halo 2 (and still play it from time to time), it’s pretty common knowledge that it’s almost as overrated as FFVII. I don’t need to go any further, since Prak’s pretty much said it all on that topic.
Don’t be so upset!! Especially if you guys seem to think that their opinions don’t matter! >=(
>>
Imagine that–another strawman built by iceberg. As far as I know, there isn’t a giant conspiracy theory among FFVII-"haters" about Squeenix and/or Sony "paying off" gaming mags. What has been said repeatedly is that it would be in the best interests of said magazines to give FFVII positive reviews, seeing how much Sony and/or Squeenix put into advertising. As for GameFan Magazine, the mag responsible for the "Best Game Ever" quote on the back cover of FFVII, I’ve posted info about it at least twice, namely that it was basically a front for a chain of gaming stores in California.
What you have to see if FF7 has proven to be mediocre by people who post at this forum.
Time and again, Shriners have put together very solid arguments detailing FFVII’s flaws. The best I’ve seen in FFVII’s defense (on FFS) is the disproof of plot-hole theories and "magazines give it high reviews!"
The numbers dont lie and the ridiculing is not needed.
What numbers? I surely hope you’re not trying to say FFVII was so wonderful because of its popularity. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I’ll assume you mean the scores given it by all these credible reviews you trumpet about. That’s all well and good, but you contradict yourself when you say…
Its up to the person to decide if they will take that into account.
The name-calling comes from the fact that you repeat the same bullshit over and over without directly confronting the points placed in front of you.
You know damn well that there is no actual documented proof of it. That’s because it’s a practice that is largely accepted in several different industries. In Hollywood, there’s an exceptionally good example called the Academy Awards. Everyone knows the winners are basically determined by how much money studios donate to the Academy.
The music industry works similarly. It’s a big system of money changing hands to facilitate a "I’ll scratch your back and you scratch mine" mentality. If you really want to dispute these claims, the burden of proof is on you.
You’re a proven moron, so agreeing with him only hurts his cause. Thanks very much!
Logical inferences are not enough? Many of the world’s greatest mysteries have been solved through the application of logic in the absence of physical evidence. Try again.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my problem is actually with the fanbase and the company that made the game. The game itself is simply a mediocre product that would otherwise be beneath my notice, were it not for the attention it garners from those who have no idea what they’re talking about.
The only credible reviewers (of pretty much anything) are the independent ones who make no money from their reviews and are capable of making a completely objective anaysis of a product. Otherwise, they fall into the aforementioned system of money-moving.
You have missed a major point. It’s not about making excuses to discredit the reviews. It’s about explaining the reasons for the high scores to tie in with and strengthen our own arguments.
If reviews were the ultimate be-all and end-all of a discussion on the subject, it would be over before it began. But then, where would that leave those of us who have legitimate complaints about the game? We would have to simply be dismissed as wrong and ignored. Only a lunatic would think that was proper.
Besides, why are so-called professional reviewers any better than us? Why do they know better than I do what makes a good game? They may do it for a living, but I’ve played quite a lot of games myself and am quite knowledgable. What’s the difference? The difference is only in their employment. If I were to become a staff writer for a major gaming magazine tomorrow, would my views on gaming somehow become more legitimate overnight? Of course not.
Numbers do lie. They lie frequently about a lot of things, from corporate ledgers to weather forecasts to gaming reviews. They are as fallible as the people who write them.
Ridiculing is often necessary, actually. Reason cannot sway all people, so a kick in the ass is needed to rile them into engaging a discussion on the proper terms.
Actually, Halo 2 was an exceptional example of a game being overrated due to the advertising revenue it generated. Very few games have ever been so hotly disputed as it is. That kind of conflict does not come out of nowhere. There are obviously many valid complaints that were not reflected in the game’s reviews.
And just so everyone knows exactly what the hell I’m talking about when I refer to money changing hands, I’ll explain the process. When a game is released, publishers spend money to advertise it. They put ads in magazines, websites, and sometimes even on television. These, of course, cost money, which goes to the media outlets that are running the ads. Now, in the cases of games which are advertised particularly heavily, with huge pop-up flash ads on websites and multi-page foldouts in magazines, that is a LOT of money. And where that much money is moved, relationships develop. If someone is willing to spend that much money, then the recipient wants to make it as likely as possible that they’ll receive more. Therefore, when it comes to reviewing products, they do it as kindly as possible to make the publisher more inclined to spend more money advertising with them.
It’s a very simple and very obvious system, and no one with even an ounce of business knowledge could possibly believe that it doesn’t happen frequently.
I can understand what you are saying from a business standpoint. It might happen in the gaming industry who knows. But my point is it can not be proven it happened in FF7s case. Is so I can safely assume it happens to any other game that is given high ratings? A game like oblivion that was given great ratings and the marketing may have not as big as FF7s, but was strong nonetheless. Were the good reviews given because of the reasons you and chunky have stated?
Ive never heard of this until people have tried to argue against FF7. That is my point. If this is a possible common thing in the industry, why hasnt it been pointed out for any other game?
Time and again, Shriners have put together very solid arguments detailing FFVII’s flaws. The best I’ve seen in FFVII’s defense (on FFS) is the disproof of plot-hole theories and "magazines give it high reviews!"
What numbers? I surely hope you’re not trying to say FFVII was so wonderful because of its popularity. Giving you the benefit of the doubt, I’ll assume you mean the scores given it by all these credible reviews you trumpet about. That’s all well and good, but you contradict yourself when you say…
So its safe to assume a game like halo 2, which was heavily marketed, was only given good reviews because it would be in the best interest of the magazines and websites who review it? Or is that just the case with FF7?
What numbers? The reviews. I did not contradict myself at all.
I honestly didn’t mean to imply that at all. I’m sure there must a number of credible reviewers who’ve looked at that game in an objective manner and have reached reasonable conclusions. It just seems to me sadly that the number of those are much smaller than the one’s who get their information wrong.
I really find it hard to see why it was given such a high rating from the majority of reviewers if its a mediocre game.
Admittedly I don’t have as much background knowledge, or facts to hand, on this as some of the others in here, so probably can’t give you as good an answer as them.
However it’s common knowledge, i’m sure amongst most of us, that while the game isn’t exactly great it was certainly designed to appeal to many people before it’s release. The characters were made easy to understand, there were alot of flashy special effects, the backgrounds and people were designed in 3-D for the first time, plot ideas which had already worked well in other games/stories were re-used in conjunction with these things. None of these aspects were enough to make the game good, but certainly they were enough to make the game popular, which was Square’s aim from the start in order to make their money.
You may doubt some of that, but then considering the heavy advertising of the game just before it’s release, doesn’t it strike you that perhaps Square were just a little desperate at the time to get this game noticed? Is the idea of Square bribing magazines behind closed doors really so impossible if you really think about it? So much depended on their success with that game at that time. If they’d failed it would have been bad for both their reputation and for their profit making.
Oh so we are not going to attempt to act like adults here? First name calling then what, you’re going to pinch me? Come on grow up.
Ok if square paid of magazines to give FF7 good reviews, where is the proof of that? Thats what Im saying, that statement can not be proved and leads to my point of people saying anything to discredit the game. What didnt you understand?
The name-calling comes from the fact that you repeat the same bullshit over and over without directly confronting the points placed in front of you.
You know damn well that there is no actual documented proof of it. That’s because it’s a practice that is largely accepted in several different industries. In Hollywood, there’s an exceptionally good example called the Academy Awards. Everyone knows the winners are basically determined by how much money studios donate to the Academy.
The music industry works similarly. It’s a big system of money changing hands to facilitate a "I’ll scratch your back and you scratch mine" mentality. If you really want to dispute these claims, the burden of proof is on you.
Finally someone who talks with some common sense and doesnt just flame unneccesarily.I definetly agree with Bizzle.
You’re a proven moron, so agreeing with him only hurts his cause. Thanks very much!
Can anyone prove that theory about square paying people off? If not then it holds no relevance.
Logical inferences are not enough? Many of the world’s greatest mysteries have been solved through the application of logic in the absence of physical evidence. Try again.
Is the problem you have with FF7 against its fanbase? Or against the game itself…?
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my problem is actually with the fanbase and the company that made the game. The game itself is simply a mediocre product that would otherwise be beneath my notice, were it not for the attention it garners from those who have no idea what they’re talking about.
I understand that point but saying that is really saying that everyone who is a credible reviewer is wrong. I really find it hard to see why it was given such a high rating from the majority of reviewers if its a mediocre game. There were a lot of things that could have been fixed in the game, but with every game there is always room for improvement. The game is definitley above any average rpg.
The only credible reviewers (of pretty much anything) are the independent ones who make no money from their reviews and are capable of making a completely objective anaysis of a product. Otherwise, they fall into the aforementioned system of money-moving.
Its just funny how Ive never seen any other game’s scores in question as much as I see FF7’s. The general consensus of this forum seems to lead toward calling each positive FF7 reviewer a fanboy or even say that they are bias. And these are people who play game and review them for a living. I find it really funny. I respect anyone’s opinions. So if you were to say hey that game sucks and state reasons, I respect that. And Ive seen may shriners do that. But to make up excuse after excuse for the high scores of FF7 is really silly. Dont you think? Honestly?
You have missed a major point. It’s not about making excuses to discredit the reviews. It’s about explaining the reasons for the high scores to tie in with and strengthen our own arguments.
If reviews were the ultimate be-all and end-all of a discussion on the subject, it would be over before it began. But then, where would that leave those of us who have legitimate complaints about the game? We would have to simply be dismissed as wrong and ignored. Only a lunatic would think that was proper.
Besides, why are so-called professional reviewers any better than us? Why do they know better than I do what makes a good game? They may do it for a living, but I’ve played quite a lot of games myself and am quite knowledgable. What’s the difference? The difference is only in their employment. If I were to become a staff writer for a major gaming magazine tomorrow, would my views on gaming somehow become more legitimate overnight? Of course not.
The numbers dont lie and the ridiculing is not needed.
Numbers do lie. They lie frequently about a lot of things, from corporate ledgers to weather forecasts to gaming reviews. They are as fallible as the people who write them.
Ridiculing is often necessary, actually. Reason cannot sway all people, so a kick in the ass is needed to rile them into engaging a discussion on the proper terms.
So its safe to assume a game like halo 2, which was heavily marketed, was only given good reviews because it would be in the best interest of the magazines and websites who review it? Or is that just the case with FF7?
Actually, Halo 2 was an exceptional example of a game being overrated due to the advertising revenue it generated. Very few games have ever been so hotly disputed as it is. That kind of conflict does not come out of nowhere. There are obviously many valid complaints that were not reflected in the game’s reviews.
And just so everyone knows exactly what the hell I’m talking about when I refer to money changing hands, I’ll explain the process. When a game is released, publishers spend money to advertise it. They put ads in magazines, websites, and sometimes even on television. These, of course, cost money, which goes to the media outlets that are running the ads. Now, in the cases of games which are advertised particularly heavily, with huge pop-up flash ads on websites and multi-page foldouts in magazines, that is a LOT of money. And where that much money is moved, relationships develop. If someone is willing to spend that much money, then the recipient wants to make it as likely as possible that they’ll receive more. Therefore, when it comes to reviewing products, they do it as kindly as possible to make the publisher more inclined to spend more money advertising with them.
It’s a very simple and very obvious system, and no one with even an ounce of business knowledge could possibly believe that it doesn’t happen frequently.
Have to admit that possibility didn’t occur to me before.
I guess that does make sense thinking about it, though then again you do get people who secretly work within organizations to spy on their practices on behalf of a competitor in return for large amounts of money. I’m suprised none of Square’s competitor’s ever did the dirty on them in that way and publicly expose them in order to damage their reputation. Still I suppose most of them are just as guilty of the same crime when it comes to their products which could perhaps be why that’s never happened.
If it’s for sake of discussion between opinions over whether or not FFVII is good or bad, or either enough to be considered for a remake, then what about FFVII’s actual story quality/rating(like movie ratings..) and target genre and the difference between the classics? Because actually almost every FF before and after VII seems to be totally traditional compared to it. But maybe that’s a sketchy point I shouldn’t make, seeing as even though there are medieval themes in later series they have a modern and future modern feel to them as compared to the classics. FFVII just seems like some city-greasy novel instead of the more whole-hearted justice-based motif in most series.
The process Prak is describing isn’t so much an overt bribe by Sony/Squeenix/whoever, but a "here, I’ll scratch your back, now you scratch mine" deal. Thus, such a spy thing wouldn’t exactly be, well, effective.
Why are FFVII’s reviews so important again?
They’re really not important. However, FFVII’s stalwart defenders bring up the reviews over and over again–thus, the discussion.
Yup, I realised that 😉
It just suprises me that there hasn’t been at least one competitor of Square’s who were threatened enough by their success, at some stage, to try and do the dirty on them in the way I described. While admittedly alot of companies take the "I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine" attitude towards each other, there are others who’ll quite happily take the chance of making a competitor look bad if it’s to their own gain.
Still then again I’ve only got a limited amount of knowledge on that type of situation, so probably am not the best person to judge.
It just suprises me that there hasn’t been at least one competitor of Square’s who were threatened enough by their success, at some stage, to try and do the dirty on them in the way I described. While admittedly alot of companies take the "I’ll scratch your back if you scratch mine" attitude towards each other, there are others who’ll quite happily take the chance of making a competitor look bad if it’s to their own gain.
Still then again I’ve only got a limited amount of knowledge on that type of situation, so probably am not the best person to judge.
This might be the case if it actually happened. Its not proven.
Admittedly, I can’t say how much/how little that situation occurs with companies within the gaming industry without evidence. However, on a more general note, certainly it’s a situation which occurs in business. Something along those lines once happened at a company I used to work for, with a member of staff who worked in my department. It led to him being dismissed. I’ve also read articles on the subject from various sources. While not all cases can be proved, company spying does happen.
Im sure company spying does occur lol. I read your post wrong sorry
No worries 😉
You should know that there is no way to predict how popular a game is going to be unless it’s a sequel that fans are already trying to get pirated copies of six months before its release date. Similarly, there is no way of explaining with certainty the reason why a mediocre game received good reviews. The "backscratching" idea makes a lot of sense, so why should it be dismissed simply because it isn’t documented? If I told you I was 18 years old as part of an argument, you wouldn’t go saying "Give me a birth certificate, motherfucker, or your point is invalid!"
Also, you have way too much faith in the media if you believe critics are objective. I don’t need to say any more about that.
You should know that there is no way to predict how popular a game is going to be unless it’s a sequel that fans are already trying to get pirated copies of six months before its release date. Similarly, there is no way of explaining with certainty the reason why a mediocre game received good reviews. The "backscratching" idea makes a lot of sense, so why should it be dismissed simply because it isn’t documented? If I told you I was 18 years old as part of an argument, you wouldn’t go saying "Give me a birth certificate, motherfucker, or your point is invalid!"
Also, you have way too much faith in the media if you believe critics are objective. I don’t need to say any more about that.
We dont know if this happened, but everyone seems to be adopting the idea that such did occur. I dont think its fair to the game (FF7) to say something like this happened. Why isnt this being discussed in cases of other highly rated games? The fact that the game recieved great reviews can not be accepeted. And I just find it funny that out of all the games that are discussed at this forum, this is the first time this has ever been mentioned. Its just a coincidence that it just so happened to be brought up in a FF7 discussion. It just seems a little funny.
but the point you brought up isn’t the funny part…it’s the fact that you’re totally giving SquareEnix a blowjob by defending this shitty game like it’s the best thing since sliced bread, when from any angle it’s clearly not
if you ask for evidence, go back and read the entire thread from the beginning
but the point you brought up isn’t the funny part
iceberg himself brought up Halo 2, asking if it received the same benefit that FFVII apparently got, and apparently, when he didn’t get the answer he was looking for, and the point was immediately dropped.
if you ask for evidence, go back and read the entire thread from the beginning
FF VII is overrated and given way more credit than it deserves but it is not at all a shitty game.
It’s people who come out with back up statements such as ‘It’s my favourite in the series because it’s the only one i’ve played’ or ‘it’s the best because Cloud kicked ass’ that I have limited patience with.
It’s people who come out with back up statements such as ‘It’s my favourite in the series because it’s the only one i’ve played’ or ‘it’s the best because Cloud kicked ass’ that I have limited patience with.
i agree…to some extent…i have NO patience with those people, in most cases you’re better off arguing with a brick wall than with those hopeless fanatics
reason, logic, and evidence are things i always try to get from them but all i get is STFU and GTHO…they then proceed to go home and jack-off because their one-sided mindset keeps them from having relationships with girls that don’t have the last name .gif, .jpg, or .png
>>
I’m sure there’s SOME hopf for the fanatics…even though they might not seem like they’re listening to you, I think most of them are just too stubborn to let it show that they agree with you….
I think most of them are really actually thinking of what you said….even if they’re angry or reluctant about it…..
It’s a mediocre game, at best. Why do you keep defending it?
I defend the game because it’s something I love. =] I think that the fanboys, no matter how dumb they might seem, are just doing the same thing…so sometimes I kind of feel the need to defend them, too….
People are sometimes stubborn when they defend things they love…>> And as they say, "Love makes people do stupid things."
Tell me where in my post that I stated that the "backscratching" was going on. I didn’t. But you can’t force everyone to assume it isn’t happening just because it isn’t proven.
The idea is merely a speculation as to why the game received good reviews. I think Prak’s idea sounds logical, but I also believe it’s because FFVII can be a very likeable game, despite its lack of proper character development and poorly connected plot. Also, if you read the review at the beginning of this thread, the author does not even take a critical stance on the game. He merely mentions all the things he enjoyed about the game, something that’s fine for a reviewer to do, but it has no critical relevancy in the quality of the game.
What bothers me is that you seem to act as though the supreme authority of reviewers, people I often have little respect for anyway, trumps all our arguments just because they said so.
This is the first time i’ve said something about it in this thread, so to ask why i keep defending it would be false. I do agree that it has flaws and is overrated but it is not mediocre at best. If it was mediocre at best (and i assume you were stating that like it was a fact) it would not have become so popular and loved by so many people. A game cannot succeed unless it’s good, no matter how large of a reputation or how much advertisement the series has. Games like Devil May Cry 2 and Dirge of Cerebrus have proven this.
It’s people who come out with back up statements such as ‘It’s my favourite in the series because it’s the only one i’ve played’ or ‘it’s the best because Cloud kicked ass’ that I have limited patience with.
agreed
I think your’re missing my point. I’m not so much defending how great
the game is. What I’m saying is because the game was reviewed so highly,
people are throwing aligations of money being passed, companies
scratching each others backs etc…..in order to discredit the game.
What I’m saying is why can’t it be excepted that the game was reviewed
so highly was because the people who wrote these articles actually
enjoyed the game? Do you guys really hate the game sooo much that you’ll
say whatever to make it look bad. If you don’t like the game that’s fine
with me, like I said I know you guys have plenty of arguments, I just
feel this money excuse is a bit silly.
Now to satisfy chunky because he’s seems to love me so much, I wasn’t
defending halo. All I asked was a huge majority of reviews halo 2
received were positive. Would it be safe to assume that the same
happened to halo as what was discussed for ff7? Did bungie pay money or
scratch someones back per se to make the game get said reviews? That
question was not answered. I actually don’t play halo. I bought the game
thought the single player was so so. The multiplayer is its strongest
point and I do give it tons of credit for presenting one of the most lag
free online experiences I’ve played. I think the game is over rated but
that’s my taste because I wasn’t a huge fan of halo 1 like everyone else
was. So I’m not sure what you think you’re reading but pay more
attention. Now did I answer everything I was supposed to?
Because that’s the way business works. If you’d take your own advice and think about the things others are saying instead of blindly sticking to your own ignorant and worthless opinions, you might learn something.
Do you guys really hate the game sooo much that you’ll
say whatever to make it look bad. If you don’t like the game that’s fine
with me, like I said I know you guys have plenty of arguments, I just
feel this money excuse is a bit silly.
You also can’t disprove it. That is because it is correct. The same thing happens all the time with all kinds of different games. Hell, look at GTA: San Andreas for a great example of an obviously inferior product getting superior reviews. People actually gave it perfect ratings in the graphics category despite the fact that the draw distance was horrible and scenery tended to not render properly fairly constantly. The reviewers would have to be utter morons to miss those glaring flaws, and I don’t think that’s the case. I can probably come up with dozens of other examples of it if you really want to press the issue. Even if you don’t regard a couple examples as proof, with enough repetition, an undeniable pattern emerges.
You also can’t disprove it. That is because it is correct. The same thing happens all the time with all kinds of different games. Hell, look at GTA: San Andreas for a great example of an obviously inferior product getting superior reviews. People actually gave it perfect ratings in the graphics category despite the fact that the draw distance was horrible and scenery tended to not render properly fairly constantly. The reviewers would have to be utter morons to miss those glaring flaws, and I don’t think that’s the case. I can probably come up with dozens of other examples of it if you really want to press the issue. Even if you don’t regard a couple examples as proof, with enough repetition, an undeniable pattern emerges.
If it was proven Id accept it. Trust me, your opinion means shit to me. I could care less. Its not proven therefore not relevant and another stretch for you guys who hate the game so much to try and try to bring the game down. You especially always preach "wheres the proof" and "back it up". You cant? Stop with it.
Graphics aside, GTA SA was a great game. Graphics arent everything and I think you know that. It got the reviews it deserved.
You also can’t disprove it. That is because it is correct. The same thing happens all the time with all kinds of different games. Hell, look at GTA: San Andreas for a great example of an obviously inferior product getting superior reviews. People actually gave it perfect ratings in the graphics category despite the fact that the draw distance was horrible and scenery tended to not render properly fairly constantly. The reviewers would have to be utter morons to miss those glaring flaws, and I don’t think that’s the case. I can probably come up with dozens of other examples of it if you really want to press the issue. Even if you don’t regard a couple examples as proof, with enough repetition, an undeniable pattern emerges.
Take your own advice. Maybe you’re wrong here. You cant always be right no matter how stubborn you might be.
Um so you kiss his ass?
Oh wait, just for the record, FF12 is getting some great reviews. Hmmmmm I wonder what that means????
Its a great game. I say this from personal expierence as well.
Graphics aside, GTA SA was a great game. Graphics arent everything and I think you know that. It got the reviews it deserved.
I think the main point being made there Iceberg, at the risk of putting words in Praks mouth, was that while there’s actually nothing in print to prove that such cases with game reviewers happen, the fact that games are so regularly given more credit than they deserve, in cases when things are too obviously wrong with them for anyone to miss, no matter how much they might like the game, indicates there’s other reasons behind some of the things that magazine reviewers have said, other than just a personal liking of the game.
Patterns of behaviour, can count as a type of evidence to pinpoint a situation if you look at things from a logical point of view. For example take money stealing. Say that when you went to your job each day, you hung your jacket up in a particular place before starting work. Then imagine if at the end of your working day, when going to grab it just before heading home, you discovered change missing out of your pocket. You know there’s no hole in the pocket, and that you zipped it up that morning before leaving your jacket where you did. You’d think it was pretty strange that you had money missing, even though you didn’t actually see anybody take it.
Then imagine if this started happening on a daily basis. Would it not be a reasonable conclusion to come to that your money was being stolen, even though you’d have no proof as to who it was or the exact time the stealing took place? Logically there would be no other explanation.
Unless you are capable of actually proving him wrong, you’re nothing but a moron spouting pure fanboy vitriol.
Um so you kiss his ass?
No, that applies to anyone, I just mentioned prak as an example for this case.
There’s nothing wrong with Prak being correct. >> But the people here always seem to be very "a-hole-ish" about themselves being correct. >=(
I speak this by experience. There are few times that people simply reply, "Oh! I see…thank you." People often argue instead…. So people do find something offensive here. But….Hm.
I mean, you rude troll-guys are RIGHT! You don’t have to be so "a-hole-ish" about it…being correct is something that you should be glad about!! And it’s a wonderful thing to be able to share truth to those that are in the dark…it’s nothing to be rude and cynical about….>>
As I’ve said before, logic based on rational observations and detection of patterns is a form of proof. Perhaps even the most reliable one. If you will not acknowledge this, you are nothing more than a scared fanboy desperately clinging to your singular hope of defying me, regardless of how ridiculous it is.
Graphics aside, GTA SA was a great game. Graphics arent everything and I think you know that. It got the reviews it deserved.
I can very easily pick apart a lot of its aspects, actually. In fact, there’s no chance that I would give the game anything more than a 7.5 out of 10. I used the graphics as a very specific example to prove a very specific point, however, and I notice that you did not attempt to counter that point. If you still had any credibility left, you would have just lost it all.
Take your own advice. Maybe you’re wrong here. You cant always be right no matter how stubborn you might be.
You’d be surprised how often a person like me can be right. Try thinking rationally a bit more often and you’ll start to see the sense in the things I say. As it stands, you are just another worthless fankid of the type we see in here all the time, mock for a while, and never miss when you’re gone.
Oh wait, just for the record, FF12 is getting some great reviews. Hmmmmm I wonder what that means????
I’ve pointed out some flaws in another thread that no one seems to be addressing in reviews. FFXII has had a tremendous amount of advertising money backing it, so it’s no surprise at all. I’m not saying it’s a bad game by any means, but it is not the perfect instant classic so many reviewers are making it out to be.
Of course, you can always counter this by acknowledging that I’m a better reviewer than most of these so-called professionals. I’ll probably be smug enough about that to let the real reason for it drop.
I can very easily pick apart a lot of its aspects, actually. In fact, there’s no chance that I would give the game anything more than a 7.5 out of 10. I used the graphics as a very specific example to prove a very specific point, however, and I notice that you did not attempt to counter that point. If you still had any credibility left, you would have just lost it all.
You’d be surprised how often a person like me can be right. Try thinking rationally a bit more often and you’ll start to see the sense in the things I say. As it stands, you are just another worthless fankid of the type we see in here all the time, mock for a while, and never miss when you’re gone.
I’ve pointed out some flaws in another thread that no one seems to be addressing in reviews. FFXII has had a tremendous amount of advertising money backing it, so it’s no surprise at all. I’m not saying it’s a bad game by any means, but it is not the perfect instant classic so many reviewers are making it out to be.
Of course, you can always counter this by acknowledging that I’m a better reviewer than most of these so-called professionals. I’ll probably be smug enough about that to let the real reason for it drop.
Like I said no proof, its bullshit!!!! That simple Theres no response for the high reviews so you start these crazy aligations.
"If you will not acknowledge this, you are nothing more than a scared fanboy desperately clinging to your singular hope of defying me, regardless of how ridiculous it is." Come on listen to yourself. Its ridiculous.
Go ahead, pick GTA apart. Great game!!!! Enough said.
I havent played FF12 enough to actually say classic or not or even best FF but so far its a great game. And no you are not better than the pro reviewers. Its funny how you think your’re hot shit cause you bully 10 year olds on a forum. I mean if thats what makes you happy more power to you. Its not that serious buddy.
No, that applies to anyone, I just mentioned prak as an example for this case.
Can you prove him right? No, so then your’re a pure ass kisser.
I don’t care…!
Hmf. At least now I know why everyone around here’s so offensive….
People ignore you here if you aren’t…
😮
Well I can be offensive, too!
Watch!
I HATE you guys!!! You…you MOLDY CINNAMON BUNS!!!!
"If you will not acknowledge this, you are nothing more than a scared fanboy desperately clinging to your singular hope of defying me, regardless of how ridiculous it is." Come on listen to yourself. Its ridiculous.
Go ahead, pick GTA apart. Great game!!!! Enough said.
I havent played FF12 enough to actually say classic or not or even best FF but so far its a great game. And no you are not better than the pro reviewers. Its funny how you think your’re hot shit cause you bully 10 year olds on a forum. I mean if thats what makes you happy more power to you. Its not that serious buddy.
i find it funny that you’re so easily riled into argument…i am as well but not to your degree
for the record, the lack of flaws in reviews don’t mean that they’re not there
prak HAS placed the flaws of the game thus far but has not presented them in this thread due to the fact that they’re not relevant to the thread topic
back on subject, FFVII was one of the most (if not THE most) overrated game in history and will continue to be so long as there are masses of fanboys who fail to see anything out of their sad, hopeless lives
do us a favor Iceberg and get laid, it’ll change you for the better…good luck…you’re gonna need it
I don’t care…!
Hmf. At least now I know why everyone around here’s so offensive….
People ignore you here if you aren’t…
😮
Well I can be offensive, too!
Watch!
I HATE you guys!!! You…you MOLDY CINNAMON BUNS!!!!
Without actually meaning to sound offensive NorseFTX just what is your problem?
Just because you post in a thread doesn’t mean that you’re going to get attention every time. If somebody thinks that what somebody else has said in a post is interesting enough to respond to, they respond to it. If on the other hand there’s nothing in that person’s post that people want to respond to they won’t.
If you honestly think that every time you make a post, that people are going to reply to you then sorry but afraid thats something that just doesn’t happen on internet forums like this one. Grow up and accept it. :rolleyes:
I don’t need to, he’s right from the moment you started arguing with him.
"If you will not acknowledge this, you are nothing more than a scared fanboy desperately clinging to your singular hope of defying me, regardless of how ridiculous it is." Come on listen to yourself. Its ridiculous.
Go ahead, pick GTA apart. Great game!!!! Enough said.
I havent played FF12 enough to actually say classic or not or even best FF but so far its a great game. And no you are not better than the pro reviewers. Its funny how you think your’re hot shit cause you bully 10 year olds on a forum. I mean if thats what makes you happy more power to you. Its not that serious buddy.
Maybe if you cut with the vitriol and actually start DISCUSSING those games instead of going into moronic ad hominems, then you might be viewed with a little more credibility and less contempt.
NorseFTX, we’ve heard it before and don’t feel obligated to say anything to you this time. The community has existed in this same form for a long time. It’s pretty silly to think a few words from you might change anything, especially when we like the way things are.
I’m not even entirely sure what people are discussing here….
What I notice the most are "do yourself a favor and get laid", and "don’t you have anything better to do than bully 10 year olds?" and "cut the ad hominems"….>>
You guys are…talking about reviews, right?
Hmm…..
"Reviews are the reviewer’s account of the game, and sometimes may reflect only the personal enjoyment of the reviewer. A review is not necessarily a critique."
Without actually meaning to sound offensive NorseFTX just what is your problem?
Just because you post in a thread doesn’t mean that you’re going to get attention every time. If somebody thinks that what somebody else has said in a post is interesting enough to respond to, they respond to it. If on the other hand there’s nothing in that person’s post that people want to respond to they won’t.
If you honestly think that every time you make a post, that people are going to reply to you then sorry but afraid thats something that just doesn’t happen on internet forums like this one. Grow up and accept it. :rolleyes:
All right then.
Please excuse me….
I don’t really think you guys are moldy cinnamon buns. >>
NorseFTX, we’ve heard it before and don’t feel obligated to say anything to you this time. The community has existed in this same form for a long time. It’s pretty silly to think a few words from you might change anything, especially when we like the way things are.
Hm. All I’m saying is that you seem to be bothered by all the fanboys being pissed off at you….but since people have become pissed off at you so many times on a regular basis, then the fault might not be exclusively theirs–maybe there’s something you guys are doing wrong, too.
Also, most of us are not bothered by fankids. They’re going to show up here no matter what we do, so we prefer to make sport of them instead of letting them shit up the place without fear of reprisal.
Uh. Yeah, that’s exactly what it’s supposed to be. An objective critique of a game, movie, book, TV show, et cetera, so that others can make informed decisions with their time and/or money.
Hm. All I’m saying is that you seem to be bothered by all the fanboys being pissed off at you….but since people have become pissed off at you so many times on a regular basis, then the fault might not be exclusively theirs–maybe there’s something you guys are doing wrong, too.
I don’t get bothered by fanboys when they get riled at me–I’m pretty sure Prak doesn’t, either. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. I find it quite amusing.
edit: I really wasn’t repeating Prak–I’m just a slow poster. Honest!
Mm–I was going to add that, but I decided not to…XP maybe I should have….
Though reviews sometimes are just the reviewer’s personal experience and not a critique, a review SHOULD be a critique.
I was just saying that it sometimes isn’t the case….>>
This is what I meant by my earlier post: "All reviews written by reviewers are reviews. An objective, non-personal one is a critique. A personal, subjective one is not a critique, but it is still a review."
As Prak put it, the latter would be a "rant". >>
So a "review" is a larger category that can be divided into subcategores: "critique" and "rant".
And about fankids, I think it’s better to teach them not to shit up places rather than make sport out of them….>>
People yell and act drastically if they feel as if the other side isn’t understanding them–that they aren’t expressing themselves correctly…so they start taking extreme measures….it usually is detrimental, though….
And it wouldn’t be amusing, at least to me, if someone started taking these sort of extreme measures towards me….because that’d mean that I just…don’t get it. If this is the reason you find it amusing (The "Lol, what the heck are these people saying?" kind of amusing) then it’s your own lack of understanding that you find amusing.
><
If this isn’t the case, please let me know…
I don’t want to misunderstand you guys, either….
Iceberg, you’re using the most irritatingly stupid argument in favor of FFVII, and I don’t necessarily mean this as an insult to you. As always, I shall use the "Lil’ John Example" to illustrate my point.
Take the song "Get Low." You cannot possibly argue that there is near the amount of creativity and brilliance in this song as, say, Mozart’s Requiem. Not only is there more difficulty involved in performing Mozart’s music, it takes a great deal more knowledge of music to compose it, and it has survived over two and a half centuries.
However, I guarantee you that more people have heard "Get Low" than Requiem, and even some of my own friends would prefer listening to it. But none of them would argue that "Get Low" is a better piece of music because it’s just some guy yelling "YEAH" and describing sex very bluntly and uninteligently.
Popularity and personal preferences have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a game. If you don’t acknowledge that, read the "Lil’ John Example" over and over again until you do, or never try to argue in favor of FFVII again. You will be ignored.
I like FFVII, as I’ve said many times, but I acknowledge that it is an overrated game, it has very sloppy gameplay, and its storyline is very linear, lacking character development and proper plot twists.
Also, did you even pay any attention to what I said regarding the "backscratching"? The fact that you haven’t responded to it leads me to believe you don’t have a counter-argument and are still desperately holding on to that "you don’t have proof" bullshit.
Like I said no proof, its bullshit!!!! That simple Theres no response for the high reviews so you start these crazy aligations.
Tell me where in my post that I stated that the "backscratching" was going on. I didn’t. But you can’t force everyone to assume it isn’t happening just because it isn’t proven.
Iceberg, you’re using the most irritatingly stupid argument in favor of FFVII, and I don’t necessarily mean this as an insult to you. As always, I shall use the "Lil’ John Example" to illustrate my point.
Take the song "Get Low." You cannot possibly argue that there is near the amount of creativity and brilliance in this song as, say, Mozart’s Requiem. Not only is there more difficulty involved in performing Mozart’s music, it takes a great deal more knowledge of music to compose it, and it has survived over two and a half centuries.
However, I guarantee you that more people have heard "Get Low" than Requiem, and even some of my own friends would prefer listening to it. But none of them would argue that "Get Low" is a better piece of music because it’s just some guy yelling "YEAH" and describing sex very bluntly and uninteligently.
Popularity and personal preferences have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of a game. If you don’t acknowledge that, read the "Lil’ John Example" over and over again until you do, or never try to argue in favor of FFVII again. You will be ignored.
I like FFVII, as I’ve said many times, but I acknowledge that it is an overrated game, it has very sloppy gameplay, and its storyline is very linear, lacking character development and proper plot twists.
Also, did you even pay any attention to what I said regarding the "backscratching"? The fact that you haven’t responded to it leads me to believe you don’t have a counter-argument and are still desperately holding on to that "you don’t have proof" bullshit.
Its wasnt your post I was referring to. If I did sorry about that.
Comparing lil jon to Mozart is way off. Two totally different generations of listeners. A game doesnt have to have "plot twist" to have a good story.
Prak you’re not clinging to your " BELIEF"? Its funny you used that word because its something you actually believe and cant actually prove. If it did happen and Im not saying that it didnt, Id apologize for all this. But, since there is no concrete evidence, I have the choice to follow your belief or not. I choose not to. Is there anything wrong with? Dont get upset because some people disagree with you. It happens from time to time. Ok?
What you guys dont understand was the link was not a REVIEW. Gamespot ocassionally adds games to its greatest games of all times list. This just so happened to be FF7s turn. Thats why it sounds like a rant.
The review was an even bigger rant, to be honest. I’ve read it, out of curiousity. Well. I read the first quarter of it–I couldn’t stomach the reviewer giving Squeenix a deepthroat anymore.
edit: Here’s the "review." (http://www.gamespot.com/ps/rpg/finalfantasy7/review.html)
People yell and act drastically if they feel as if the other side isn’t understanding them–that they aren’t expressing themselves correctly…so they start taking extreme measures….it usually is detrimental, though….
And it wouldn’t be amusing, at least to me, if someone started taking these sort of extreme measures towards me….because that’d mean that I just…don’t get it. If this is the reason you find it amusing (The "Lol, what the heck are these people saying?" kind of amusing) then it’s your own lack of understanding that you find amusing.
As I mentioned before NorseFTX, sometimes explaining things to those people helps the situation but more often than not it doesn’t. While at times it’s certainly worth a try, it’s not always the solution. Without meaning any offence, most of the regular’s on here already know how to tell the difference between the people who are going to listen and who aren’t going to listen. I know you mean well, but what you’ve said isn’t going to change the way things generally work here. By all means if you want to try explaining how things are to those people, that’s up to you but on the other hand it’s also up to each and every member here how they deal with what others say in their posts.
Prak you’re not clinging to your " BELIEF"? Its funny you used that word because its something you actually believe and cant actually prove. If it did happen and Im not saying that it didnt, Id apologize for all this. But, since there is no concrete evidence, I have the choice to follow your belief or not. I choose not to. Is there anything wrong with? Dont get upset because some people disagree with you. It happens from time to time. Ok?
Without meaning for this to come across as a direct answer on the behalf of anyone else, Iceberg did you read my previous post which gave an example of how it is that without concrete proof, it’s possible to pin point a situation? You don’t always need concrete proof to realise that it’s going on. A regular pattern of events, taking all facts into account and looking at things from a logical point of view, is in itself a form of reliable evidence.
I think the main problem here Iceberg isn’t that you’re not agreeing with other people, but that you’re not taking an open minded view on some of the things they’ve tried to explain to you, and as a result aren’t discussing the differences in opinion in an open minded way. I think if you at least considered the possiblity that there might be some good reasons, not yet fully explained, behind the points people other people have made, you’d see that people aren’t saying the things they are for personal reasons.
Alright…thank you then….
Thanks for your patience, too…
I suppose you’ll deal with fanboys the way you do, and I’ll deal with them the way I do.
Hm.
…>> I normally don’t like to watch people be insulted without doing something about it myself, but I didn’t realize that some of you enjoyed this, and I don’t believe I have the right to take away your enjoyment, either….
So as long as I can be there to talk to the fanboys after you’ve had your fun, then I’ll be alright….
<<
>>
Don’t expect me not to complain once in a while, though! Especially if I think things get too out of hand….
Without meaning for this to come across as a direct answer on the behalf of anyone else, Iceberg did you read my previous post which gave an example of how it is that without concrete proof, it’s possible to pin point a situation? You don’t always need concrete proof to realise that it’s going on. A regular pattern of events, taking all facts into account and looking at things from a logical point of view, is in itself a form of reliable evidence.
I think the main problem here Iceberg isn’t that you’re not agreeing with other people, but that you’re not taking an open minded view on some of the things they’ve tried to explain to you, and as a result aren’t discussing the differences in opinion in an open minded way. I think if you at least considered the possiblity that there might be some good reasons, not yet fully explained, behind the points people other people have made, you’d see that people aren’t saying the things they are for personal reasons.
I understand that point of view and I am not completely ruling it out. But why dont you you tell the same thing to the people who hate the game. Why cant they just try to open there minds to the possibility that the game was reviewed highly because they actually think the game is a great game? That doesnt seem to be happening here.
Why isnt my questions being answered? Why hasnt anything other game been discussed in this manner? Why hasnt anyone ever questioned the reviews on any other game they way FF7s reviews are being questioned? Of course this would be the first time cause FF7 is hated so much.
Prak never said that none of the reviewers genuinely liked the game; he didn’t even say that none of them thought it was a good game. What Prak said was that a logical explanation for FFVII’s high reviews was that Square feeds a lot of advertising money into magazines. That makes a lot of logical sense. Nobody ever contradicted the idea that the reviewers might actually like the game; Prak just offered an explanation as to why the reviewers said it was such a good game.
And that brings me to the point you ignored about my Mozart and Lil’ John example. What a person likes is different from what a person thinks is of high quality, and I used that example to illustrate it. And proof of it is that I like FFVII, but I acknowledge that it is a highly overrated game (though not quite as bad as Prak says it is, but there’s no factual space between our opinions). I like the game Shaq Fu, but you can bet your balls I realize it’s the shittiest game to be released for a console.
Basically, many reviewers could have liked FFVII and rated it highly because of that without giving it a critical analysis, and I would figure that the "backscratching" came into play in at least some circumstances. Just remember that we’re really speculating, and that you can’t give any documented proof to disprove anything you say there’s no proof for. And you don’t automatically get the benefit of the doubt.
Actually, I don’t find it hard to believe that Prak is a more capable reviewer of games than magazine writers. I’ve read some gaming magazines, and none of their reviews were really very well written.
Prak never said that none of the reviewers genuinely liked the game; he didn’t even say that none of them thought it was a good game. What Prak said was that a logical explanation for FFVII’s high reviews was that Square feeds a lot of advertising money into magazines. That makes a lot of logical sense. Nobody ever contradicted the idea that the reviewers might actually like the game; Prak just offered an explanation as to why the reviewers said it was such a good game.
And that brings me to the point you ignored about my Mozart and Lil’ John example. What a person likes is different from what a person thinks is of high quality, and I used that example to illustrate it. And proof of it is that I like FFVII, but I acknowledge that it is a highly overrated game (though not quite as bad as Prak says it is, but there’s no factual space between our opinions). I like the game Shaq Fu, but you can bet your balls I realize it’s the shittiest game to be released for a console.
Basically, many reviewers could have liked FFVII and rated it highly because of that without giving it a critical analysis, and I would figure that the "backscratching" came into play in at least some circumstances. Just remember that we’re really speculating, and that you can’t give any documented proof to disprove anything you say there’s no proof for. And you don’t automatically get the benefit of the doubt.
Actually, I don’t find it hard to believe that Prak is a more capable reviewer of games than magazine writers. I’ve read some gaming magazines, and none of their reviews were really very well written.
How about they rated it high cause they thought it was a good game? Try that one first before you go ahead and agree with him like everyone else does.
Now who won’t accept what other people belive? If you think we’re so stupid that we don’t know that that’s what you think, then you must think this is the Cnidarian Forum or something.
Let me check if I ever used the word stupid in my post. I dont remember that
Because it isn’t a good game, you can’t just excuse plot inconsistencies, lego-block graphics and horribly broken gameplay with some ass-kisser’s review. Shit is still shit, no matter how many people are paid to rate this shit so damn high.
lol…he probably doesn’t know what a Cnidarian is…besides…i think he’s more of a Platyhelminthe anyway…he needs to feed on others to justify his existence and proliferate his kind
Character models were blocky yes. But in battle graphics were amazing back in 97 IMO. Especially after playing FF6. Its was a huge jump. The way the summons were presented blew almost everyone away. Gameplay wasnt as broken as you make it sound. Not too bad IMO. I do agree with some of the plot inconsistencies though. But overall I liked the story.
This post was not needed at all. Such a bad attempt at an insult.
you only think it was a bad attempt at an insult because you don’t know what i’m referring to do you?
back on topic, you and iceberg need to get a reality check here
Biased articles and high sales mean nothing as to determining the quality of a product. Only by taking an unbiased stance from a completely objective purpose can a reviewer rightfully say that he or she has written an article that is accurate and covers the entirety of the product in question.
question is, are the articles written about FF7 biased?…YES
look at how they clearly address the game’s strong points but fail to even hint at any flaws in game design, plot movement, control scheme at times (i.e. push up to go right?!), or even the boorish mini-games
they hardly address them, and when they do…they cover it up with more bullshit about how great the rest of the game is…when in reality, the parts that were at least half-way decent make up no significant portion of it from any point of view
it would be interesting to know how old you are, so then we can determine if you’re just innocent or just plain ignorant
No it wasn’t, lego-blocks polygons cannot compare to well-done sprites, had Square stuck to using watercolour 2-D graphics like they did with Saga Frontier, it would have scored higher in that area. 3-D for 3-D’s sake does not make the graphics better by default. As for summons, yeah I am blown away…at how ridiculously long it took to execute, KotR anyone? If you compare it…OBJECTIVELY…to other games Squaresoft has released around that time, it’s pretty obvious that FF7 is a throwaway effort game.
Bizzle : You’re a moron and not worth a good reply, so fuck off.
Seeing as where this thread’s gone, replying almost seems like a total waste of time to me.
Bizzle : You’re a moron and not worth a good reply, so fuck off.
Im sure you’ll agree that you can do a lot more with 3D graphics than you can with 2D no matter how they look. Saying that KOTR took ages to use isnt a reply to his point about graphics either. Like someone asking "Is that a man or a woman?" and replying "yeah".
Did I hear someone mention anything about the plot? Please show me all these inconsistencies/plot holes/whatever you like to call them. I love these moments.
And heres anoher thing I love. People say that battle system in FF7 is broken. I assume that since you are all worshiping FF6 that you took note of the Vanish and Doom combo? One of the worst things added to any FF. Even Zanmato required a bit of gil to use but to say that a couple of spells can beat any monster or boss you like is ridiculous. Good thing they took that out of FF7 because that would make the game even more then flawed eh?
As for plot inconsistencies, I’ll leave it to someone who hasn’t tossed the game away in disgust.
Honestly DW, I thought you could do better that that.
I thought the lego-people in FF7 were kind of cute…>> They also emulated real motions of people pretty well. =]
I also thought that the reason they made the people look like that was for it to be more like the older FF sprites–the "super-deformed" kind of thing, except in 3-D. It was a sort of style-choice that they made…
They were capable of making realistic models, too! The battle models don’t have missing elbows or lego-ness to them….
But they chose not to do that! >> Maybe some people didn’t like it though, and I think it wasn’t received as well as they expected…..since most people who see it don’t like it at first glance…..
As for plot inconsistencies, I’ll leave it to someone who hasn’t tossed the game away in disgust.
Honestly DW, I thought you could do better that that.
Ok then show me these flaws in gameplay. You all talk about things like FF7 suffers in gameplay mechanics yet I never see anyone pointing out where and why.
Im glad you agree that FF6 has a broken battle system. Would you also agree that it also ruins the difficulty of the game? And dont give me this FF6 had great 2D graphics crap. If you fly the airship or ride a chocobo the world map becomes a big blur of colour and the controls change too and become annoying. A show of bad graphics and bad gameplay there would you agree?
You expected more out of me yet you dont reply to my point about the plot? You’re either here all the way or you’re not. You dont give a couple of lines and then moan about the game and leave. I really thought you could do better than that.
I havent been on FF Shrine for a while so i missed the start of this review debate. I came on to see the last few pages so I replyed. Ive no problem about arguing about reviewers though dont worry.
The debate about the quality and flaws and whether FF7 is ‘broken’ has been discussed many times….
By comparison to other games, most people here say FF7 isn’t quite up to par….
However, there isn’t anything in FF7 that I want to change–I loved it when I played it….=]
If I wanted something else, I’d just play another game…>>
Honestly, there isn’t much of a point. I’ve already more or less crushed the credibility of the opposition, so we’re mostly just pissing on people who dare to defy my flawless logic.
lollin
I guess thats true. I wonder what iceberg will have to say about this.
nothing…he’s crying to his mommy
You called :p
If you want to debate the issue of FF7 being given high ratings, due to Square Enix bribing magazine companies, by making some points i’ll read over them and do my best to reply to them. 😉
However I’m going to be the first to admit that I haven’t got as much background knowledge on this as some of the others in here, so am probably not the best choice of person to argue the subject with.
Z obviously loves the attention I dont give, its pretty funny. Yeah I called my mom she didnt answer the phone so I figured ah fuck it, let me post.
Prak pigheaded is a word that bests describes you and you should know that.
Giga no one here has backround knowledge of the square bribing, its all speculation.
Desert whats your take on the whole FF7 briding scandal lol? Do you think it happened? Do you find it funny that it was only ever brought up on FF7s behalf?
Its funny how you say that. " I’ve already more or less crushed the credibility of the opposition" ok, and then "so we’re mostly just pissing on people who dare to defy my flawless logic" Whos we? Oh thats right you talk and you have your little prak fanboys whos literally suck your dick online its actually pretty funny. Its actually really sad. Should I name names?
Chunky is the first on the list. He basically says the same shit you do like right after you say it. He’s like your little retarded sidekick. Come on Prak you know thats the truth.
Oh and just for the record look how prak defends FFX2
"Guys, your personal dislike of a game does not represent the concensus of the masses. The irrefutable fact of the matter is that FFX-2 received overwhelmingly positive reviews and sold well over 5 million copies. That should be ample proof that it is regarded as an excellent game".
Heres the link read it for yourselves.
wouldnt the same apply for FF7? Hmmmmmmm I smell contradiction. I see that you are a FFX2 fanboy.
Chunky is the first on the list. He basically says the same shit you do like right after you say it. He’s like your little retarded sidekick. Come on Prak you thats the truth.
Oh and just for the record look how prak defends FFX2
"Guys, your personal dislike of a game does not represent the concensus of the masses. The irrefutable fact of the matter is that FFX-2 received overwhelmingly positive reviews and sold well over 5 million copies. That should be ample proof that it is regarded as an excellent game".
Heres the link read it for yourselves.
wouldnt the same apply for FF7? Hmmmmmmm I smell contradiction. I see that you are a FFX2 fanboy.
WOW! lol@ Prak.
Chunky is the first on the list. He basically says the same shit you do like right after you say it. He’s like your little retarded sidekick. Come on Prak you thats the truth.
Ad hominem, fail.
Look here goes one of the fanboys I was referring to. You’re trying to sound just like him. Come on have some dignity.
I want to see how his little fanboys, and prak himself, try to defend that last post.
Did your mother accidentally play fetus rocket when giving birth to you and shot you into an abortion bin, or are you just that attention starved?
Can I use this as part of my sig?
Desert whats your take on the whole FF7 briding scandal lol? Do you think it happened? Do you find it funny that it was only ever brought up on FF7s behalf?
Enough is enough. I have had it with this motherfuckin’ bullshit on this motherfickin’ forum.
Again you COMPLETELY ignored what I said with the exception of your use of my word, "speculation." I’m sure Prak has a good answer for what Bizzle brought up about the FFX-II thread, but I’ve got something for you in the meantime.
Firstly, I never heard about the FFVII briding scandal. Did the game have sex out of wedlock or something?
And it’s ridiculous to refer to something Prak stated was a common business practice as a bribing scandal, because the fine line between bribing and contributing, however nitpicky and stupid it is, makes a huge difference in the real world. Look at Political Action Committees in the U.S. government. Effectively, they’re buying legislation by contributing to Congressmen’s reelection campaigns, but there is nothing illegal about what they do, something to me that is a serious flaw in our government.
And you just used the "it was only brought up on FFVII" argument for about the sixth time, so I’ll address it for you. It’s because in every other FF game, the people defending the game, particularly in the case of FFIX, weren’t reduced to using such shitty tactics as saying "well, it got good reviews, so you must just be wrong and you just can’t accept that it’s good." Prak’s example was just to counter the very weak point that the thread’s dumbass starter used:
And Prak, Final Fantasy X2 is not widely regarded as quite a good game, everyone who bought a copy I know of expressed how much they hated it by returning it to stores, I had never met a single person who said they liked this game until I came here. I even talked with 3 peopel who work are EB games about what they thought of it. They all said it was a terrible game.
It’s very easy to counter that point, which has little bearing on the game’s quality anyway, with a statment about the reviews. And you don’t see anybody saying that FFVII was bad because it was so disliked; I doubt you’ll argue there.
Also, Bizzle, you are very silly for taking this seriously:
Honestly, there isn’t much of a point. I’ve already more or less crushed the credibility of the opposition, so we’re mostly just pissing on people who dare to defy my flawless logic.
That post is quite clearly meant to goad anybody arguing against him. Prak isn’t foolish enough to belive he’s absolutely right about everything, even if he says he is.
Again you COMPLETELY ignored what I said with the exception of your use of my word, "speculation." I’m sure Prak has a good answer for what Bizzle brought up about the FFX-II thread, but I’ve got something for you in the meantime.
Firstly, I never heard about the FFVII briding scandal. Did the game have sex out of wedlock or something?
And it’s ridiculous to refer to something Prak stated was a common business practice as a bribing scandal, because the fine line between bribing and contributing, however nitpicky and stupid it is, makes a huge difference in the real world. Look at Political Action Committees in the U.S. government. Effectively, they’re buying legislation by contributing to Congressmen’s reelection campaigns, but there is nothing illegal about what they do, something to me that is a serious flaw in our government.
And you just used the "it was only brought up on FFVII" argument for about the sixth time, so I’ll address it for you. It’s because in every other FF game, the people defending the game, particularly in the case of FFIX, weren’t reduced to using such shitty tactics as saying "well, it got good reviews, so you must just be wrong and you just can’t accept that it’s good." Prak’s example was just to counter the very weak point that the thread’s dumbass starter used:
It’s very easy to counter that point, which has little bearing on the game’s quality anyway, with a statment about the reviews. And you don’t see anybody saying that FFVII was bad because it was so disliked; I doubt you’ll argue there.
Also, Bizzle, you are very silly for taking this seriously:
That post is quite clearly meant to goad anybody arguing against him. Prak isn’t foolish enough to belive he’s absolutely right about everything, even if he says he is.
"shitty tactics as saying "well, it got good reviews"
So you are saying that Prak is using shitty tactics in defense for FFX2. Hes basically saying the same thing iceberg said in his posts. Am I right or wrong? He was basically caught in a huge contradiction but yet still defended. Pfft its hilarious.
Prak I have to give it up to you man. Im not sure what you did to these guys but they worship you lol. Its sad.
Its nothing about fanboyism? Is that right Joan? Whoever defends FF7 is a fanboy but you can hang off of praks nuts and just nod yes to everything he says and your not a fanboy?
Prak pigheaded is a word that bests describes you and you should know that.
Giga no one here has backround knowledge of the square bribing, its all speculation.
Desert whats your take on the whole FF7 briding scandal lol? Do you think it happened? Do you find it funny that it was only ever brought up on FF7s behalf?
why give me more attention by quoting my posts?
you really should be careful, as you’ll probably end up looking like ur ava…but that WAS a good movie so i’ll give you that much
Prak is NOT pigheaded…BIGheaded is probably what you were looking for
and as for your assumption about Giga not knowing about square bribing others…there’s as much speculation as to the validity of that as there is to the quality of FFVII in general
and the reason why the "bribing scandal" was brought up on 7’s behalf is because of where this thread is located, dumbass
I realise looking back at that last post of mine, I didn’t make it very clear, my apologies for that 😉
When I was talking about background knowledge, I meant knowledge which led up to the speculation of magazine companies being paid extra to give good game reviews, not just on FF7 but on games in general.
While I know a certain amount of information, going by things i’ve read both on here and on other sites, in order to make up my own mind about the liklihood of that situation happening with Square, I admittedly don’t know enough to hold a decent debate on how likely it happens within the gaming industry in general.
Other people in here have given specific examples to explain just why it is they are making the speculations they are, which shows that they have a greater background knowledge on that subject than me.
"Guys, your personal dislike of a game does not represent the concensus of the masses. The irrefutable fact of the matter is that FFX-2 received overwhelmingly positive reviews and sold well over 5 million copies. That should be ample proof that it is regarded as an excellent game".
Heres the link read it for yourselves.
wouldnt the same apply for FF7? Hmmmmmmm I smell contradiction. I see that you are a FFX2 fanboy.
I’m going to be the first to admit, hoping not to give anyone else in here the wrong idea on what I mean, that in this case I think Bizzle makes a fair point. Not so much on the fan boy comment, but in thinking that some of what was said in that thread appears to be contradictive, in relation to what we’re all discussing at the moment.
That doesn’t change the fact that I agree FF7 is an over rated game and doesn’t change the fact that certainly I think it’s reasonable to assume it got high reviews because of the reasons people have previously given. However I do agree that what applies to FF7 isn’t something that doesn’t also apply to other games, including FFX-2. A high number of positive reviews and sales isn’t enough to determine the quality of any game, on their own.
On the other hand though I have read other threads in which other reasons were given by Prak, and others, as to why it was FFX-2 was a decent game, so i’m sure he can give an explanation on that.
Its funny how you say that. " I’ve already more or less crushed the credibility of the opposition" ok, and then "so we’re mostly just pissing on people who dare to defy my flawless logic" Whos we? Oh thats right you talk and you have your little prak fanboys whos literally suck your dick online its actually pretty funny. Its actually really sad. Should I name names?
Chunky is the first on the list. He basically says the same shit you do like right after you say it. He’s like your little retarded sidekick. Come on Prak you know thats the truth.
And what is your point? If people agree with me, that’s their own business and does not affect my perspectives in any way.
Oh and just for the record look how prak defends FFX2
"Guys, your personal dislike of a game does not represent the concensus of the masses. The irrefutable fact of the matter is that FFX-2 received overwhelmingly positive reviews and sold well over 5 million copies. That should be ample proof that it is regarded as an excellent game".
Heres the link read it for yourselves.
wouldnt the same apply for FF7? Hmmmmmmm I smell contradiction. I see that you are a FFX2 fanboy.
Excellent bit of detective work there, except for the fact that you’re a moron and came to the wrong conclusion because you took the post out of context. I was not using reviews to show that it’s a good game. I was using reviews to prove that someone was wrong when they claimed it was received badly and regarded by most as a bad game. I was speaking of perception, not the actual game’s quality. Therefore, your entire tirade is worthless.
As for being a fanboy of the game, you couldn’t be farther off base. There is absolutely nothing that I don’t look at critically. I merely defend the game from the absurd amount of unjust hatred it attracts.
That post is quite clearly meant to goad anybody arguing against him. Prak isn’t foolish enough to belive he’s absolutely right about everything, even if he says he is.
You want to hear a little secret? I don’t believe I’m right about everything, but I know that I’m right about almost everything.
Prak I have to give it up to you man. Im not sure what you did to these guys but they worship you lol. Its sad.
It’s something that comes from being right pretty much all the time, as well as being able to prove it effectively even when the view isn’t popular.
Ah, get you. I re-read that thread from the beginning and now see why it was you made that response. My apologies.
And what is your point? If people agree with me, that’s their own business and does not affect my perspectives in any way.
Excellent bit of detective work there, except for the fact that you’re a moron and came to the wrong conclusion because you took the post out of context. I was not using reviews to show that it’s a good game. I was using reviews to prove that someone was wrong when they claimed it was received badly and regarded by most as a bad game. I was speaking of perception, not the actual game’s quality. Therefore, your entire tirade is worthless.
As for being a fanboy of the game, you couldn’t be farther off base. There is absolutely nothing that I don’t look at critically. I merely defend the game from the absurd amount of unjust hatred it attracts.
You want to hear a little secret? I don’t believe I’m right about everything, but I know that I’m right about almost everything.
It’s something that comes from being right pretty much all the time, as well as being able to prove it effectively even when the view isn’t popular.
The same goes for FF7 though anyway you look at it. In FFX2’s case, I liked the game but it had its flaws. For me the story didnt catch my attention too much. IMO nothing new was really added to the game, I might be wrong though. I havent played it in a while. Anyhow strong reviews and sales do prove it to be regarded as a good game. As for FF7, same goes with the reviews and sales but the credibility of the reviews are being put on trial by previously mentioned aligations. Doesnt seem to be fair.
i’m not brown-nosing…just stating the facts and giving respect where respect is due
i’m not brown-nosing…just stating the facts and giving respect where respect is due
Here goes one of praks little ass kissers. Come on look at yourself. Are you actually wearing a cheerleaders outfit on and Prak pom poms?
What attack are you talking about Prak? Im only stating what I feel about the whole bribing situation. No more, no less. Maybe bizzle is trying to attack. Read the last post, did it have any insults or your name or anything in it? No just my opinion.
Ok so answer this, what benefit would gamespot.com get out of adding FF7 to its best games of all time list? Did square call them up and say hey, we have a favor to ask, remember we scratched your back last? Put FF7 on your little list over there and we’ll throw some money your way. But of course it cant be legite because the woman who wrote the article is a fanboy and is totally bias, right?
And Z please give it a rest, you are looking ridiculous worshipping this guy, its just a forum.
What attack are you talking about Prak? Im only stating what I feel about the whole bribing situation. No more, no less. Maybe bizzle is trying to attack. Read the last post, did it have any insults or your name or anything in it? No just my opinion.
Ok so answer this, what benefit would gamespot.com get out of adding FF7 to its best games of all time list? Did square call them up and say hey, we have a favor to ask, remember we scratched your back last? Put FF7 on your little list over there and we’ll throw some money your way. But of course it cant be legite because the woman who wrote the article is a fanboy and is totally bias, right?
And Z please give it a rest, you are looking ridiculous worshipping this guy, its just a forum.
the benefit would be to please people like you who are assumptuous idiots that eat up anything that is given to them
once again, read the post…i do NOT kiss-up to Prak
if i ever met you in real life i’d make sure you know that by grinding your pathetic fanboy skull into the pavement you wuss
it’s not shenanigans, i’m really a violent person when confronted by a person such as Iceberg
fair enough…so i’ll address Iceberg once again
why do you think i worship Prak?
what viable evidence do you have that could be proven as worship of the party in question?
and…why do you insist on defending this game so much?
why do you think i worship Prak?
what viable evidence do you have that could be proven as worship of the party in question?
and…why do you insist on defending this game so much?
First off if you met me in person and confronted me, you’d have no idea what you were getting yourself into but that is besides the point.
What proof? Hmmm just look at the other post. You root him on constantly which is really not needed. He knows what type of person he is, he really doesnt need his little fanboys always reminding him.
There has been plenty of FF7 arguments at this forum, have I participated in all of them, NO. Its not so much that I defend the game itself. I just didnt like the fact of people not accepting the high reviews from almost every magazine and website. An excuse has to be brought up to counter said reviews. Thats my point, talk about how how much you hate the game all day, I really dont care. I just dont think its fair to discredit every review by bringing up those aligations and calling anyone who says the game is good bias or a fanboy.
Anyway I have no idea why you are so upset at me when the insults came from your end first. So I am upsetting you how? I have no idea.
Of course, those of us with brains realize that in the instance you must be referring to, I couldn’t have seen his post, as his was literally one minute before mine. I’m so sorry, oh master of all things retarded, for checking for spelling and typos. As for retarded sidekicks, your oh-so-asinine "sucking dick" line had been used by Iceberg a few months ago. Following your brand of idiocy, you’d be his little retarded sidekick. Also, nice job in taking a shot at me only AFTER I stopped just short of posting "I’M NOT POSTING IN THIS THREAD" in an obnoxious, 72-point font. Did you think you were scoring points somehow? Go waste another forum’s bandwidth; it’s better used by folks like Iceberg. I may not much like him, but at least he doesn’t try some cheap potshot after I’ve announced my lack of interest in this thread.
edit since I’m here now…
I really dont care. I just dont think its fair to discredit every review by bringing up those aligations and calling anyone who says the game is good bias or a fanboy.
Having reached my spite quota for the day, I’m going to be fairly respectful now, LoL. The thing about the reviews is that "we" (the "haters") weren’t the ones who brought them into the discussion to begin with. You of all people should know that if you’re going to bring something up in a debate (especially at FFS), it’s going to be scrutinized. When reviews (like the one I linked in this thread) is even more of a rant than, say, the link you posted to start this thread, it would be kind of irresponsible to not bring up issues with reviews/reviewers.
edit again since I forgot something:
For the record, contrary to what I might have said previously, I don’t think FFVII is awful. Or THAT bad. The first disc is actally pretty decent. It just chaps my posterior when folks scream about how great FFVII supposedly is when there are games that are easily better, like SO2, FFIX, Lunar, etc, etc, etc…
edit since I’m here now…
Having reached my spite quota for the day, I’m going to be fairly respectful now, LoL. The thing about the reviews is that "we" (the "haters") weren’t the ones who brought them into the discussion to begin with. You of all people should know that if you’re going to bring something up in a debate (especially at FFS), it’s going to be scrutinized. When reviews (like the one I linked in this thread) is even more of a rant than, say, the link you posted to start this thread, it would be kind of irresponsible to not bring up issues with reviews/reviewers.
edit again since I forgot something:
For the record, contrary to what I might have said previously, I don’t think FFVII is awful. Or THAT bad. The first disc is actally pretty decent. It just chaps my posterior when folks scream about how great FFVII supposedly is when there are games that are easily better, like SO2, FFIX, Lunar, etc, etc, etc…
I dont mind if the reviews are scrutinized. Talk about them all day if you want. I just think the whole point towards the FF7s reviews was a little cheap and lame.
Just for the record, Im not usually the potshotter per se lol. Only when potshots are directed at me first.
*zing*
*zing*
I must have missed something because I dont remember bringing up a review. Read the link again. 😉
Do you see a score there? Its an article gamespot writes on each game as it is inducted into there list of great games of all time. Ill link you their FF7 review if you want.
Its not a review its simply an article inducting FF7 in there greatest games of all time.
Heres the review, enjoy the bias
Either I posted wrong, or you misunderstood me. Im not saying that its lame to scrutinize the reviews, Im saying its lame to say that square paid off magazines and site to give FF7 good reviews or whatever you said. Well actually, I remember Prak bringing that point up a while back.
A god, maybe. If thats what you are referring to.
What does that have to do with anything.
Iceberg, when you made the point about the reviews, you expected everyone to jump in and say "OK, the reviewers most definitely all thought the game was good and your point is strengthened."
For the last time, and please at least say something about this, the idea of the advertising money is a possible explanation for FFVII’s reviews. But as soon as it was mentioned, you started screaming bloody murder and saying there was no proof, and that you had to be absolutely right that the reviewers were being completely unbiased and logical. You are starting to irritate me with your silly stubbornness.
The link posted to the review, not the game description posted at the beginning, should be evidence enough that reviews have little bearing on a game’s actual quality. All the reviewer does is tell you that the graphics and music are good, and tell you that the plot is good. There’s no real description as to why all of these aspects are good. Why the reviewer think’s the plot is good is really a mystery, although it’s understandable to leave out details to avoid giving spoilers to readers. But Iceberg, think about this logically. Is a game company going to advertise in a magazine that gave their game a bad review? It makes no sense to put an advertisement in the very same magazine as an article telling how bad it is. And with the amount of money Square put into advertising, it’s really no stretch to say that magazines jumped in ready to write ass-kissing reviews to get some cash. I know there’s no proof, but there doesn’t have to be.
So Iceberg, nobody needs you to say that there’s no proof. Explain why there is a need for proof, or your argument goes out the window.
It almost seems like you had that all typed up before he even responded because he said "maybe", not yes. Meaning he is saying their is a possiblility there could be one but he’s not saying their is one for a fact. About that whole bribe shit your talking about. Their is a possibility they did and theirs a possiblity they didn’t. Until you can prove it, it’s not fact. I personally doubt their was any bribes. I could list off many many games that had similiar publicity and even more than FF VII and then got shut down by reviewers because the game wasn’t good enough. I do disagree that reviews and sales make a game good though. They do influence it but the main factor that defines if a game is good or not is the players.
As for the bribes, who knows? Not going down that road.
lovely ava by the way
No, it’s not proof of "bribery," but then again, who accused Squeenix of bribery? The fact is, there is a pattern that only a dullard would fail to recognize.
What proof? Hmmm just look at the other post. You root him on constantly which is really not needed. He knows what type of person he is, he really doesnt need his little fanboys always reminding him.
There has been plenty of FF7 arguments at this forum, have I participated in all of them, NO. Its not so much that I defend the game itself. I just didnt like the fact of people not accepting the high reviews from almost every magazine and website. An excuse has to be brought up to counter said reviews. Thats my point, talk about how how much you hate the game all day, I really dont care. I just dont think its fair to discredit every review by bringing up those aligations and calling anyone who says the game is good bias or a fanboy.
Anyway I have no idea why you are so upset at me when the insults came from your end first. So I am upsetting you how? I have no idea.
ooh i’m sooo scared…what do you say to a bullet entering your skull nerd?
and of course i would root for Prak, if he’s on a roll why not let him continue to discredit everything you say?
and as for you calling me Prak’s fanboy…even IF that were true…i’d rather be a fanboy of Prak than a fanboy of FFVII any day
go fuck yourself Iceberg, that’s all you’re good for anyway
No, it’s not proof of "bribery," but then again, who accused Squeenix of bribery? The fact is, there is a pattern that only a dullard would fail to recognize.
I do strongly agree that Halo 2 is overrated (especially single player) and why it got such a high score. I wouldnt use Advent Children as an example though. Game Pro may have given it a 90% and the editors choice, but the rest of the reviews gave it mediocre scores. (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/914754.asp?q=advent%20rising)
Final Fantasy VII scores however were quite different (http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/197341.asp?q=Final%20fantasy%20VII) Advertisement’s influence can only go so far
Just wondering which GTA you were refering to?
Look at the reviews from Game Informer, GamePro, and IGN compared to the rest–I’m not sure about GamePro, but I know firsthand that Advent Rising had lots of advertising in IGN and Game Informer.
and of course i would root for Prak, if he’s on a roll why not let him continue to discredit everything you say?
and as for you calling me Prak’s fanboy…even IF that were true…i’d rather be a fanboy of Prak than a fanboy of FFVII any day
go fuck yourself Iceberg, that’s all you’re good for anyway
Oh god please shut the fuck up. Bullet in my skull pfft come on please. You really look like an idiot right now, please shhhh.
Joan as far as the whole god thing, I put maybe as an honest answer. Would you believe me, no of course not cause you were trying to make a point. Im not the most religious person you’ll find around but I know plenty of people who have alot of input as to why the feel there is such a high being. But that is a whole other thread in itself. It was a really bad comparison by the way.
FF1WithAllThieves, Im not asking everyone to jump on and believe what Im saying or follow my opinion, but I am entitled to beleive what I want. Am I right or wrong. So you are trying to say because this whole bribe bullshit was brought up, Im suppose to just say yeah that happened and thats the end of the story? I havent completely ruled that out, but with this forum the big thing is proof. I hear that all the time, wheres the proof, back up your argument etc. This is a really bold statement to say such things are going on. Why shouldnt there be some proof. So I can easily say FF1WithAllThieves, likes men. Someone asks me to show proof I can say, I dont need proof, men on ocassion like other men and I think FF1WithAllThieves likes men and thats the end of it. No, those aligations can not be brought up without some sort of evidence. If not then its just speculation. Oh by the way I could care less if you are getting irritated.
Its funny because when the whole issue of bribing was brought up advent rising was one of the games that popped into my head. That game was marketed heavily and from what I remember got pretty mediocre reviews. If I remember correctly this game even had a money give away sweepstakes. In other forms of media, movies like waterworld who were heavily marketed and the budgets were big, tanked and were reviewed harshly. Its not always the case where big games, movies etc get the best ratings.
Take another game like NBA 07 the show, it has Kobe on the cover and has mutliple ads on tv, web sites and magazines and it was given bad reviews. Obviously there was alot of money involved. Alot of games with alot of money involved in its production and promotion dont always get high ratings. Games with the big budgets usually come out better than low budget games because better teams are assembled to make them. Is this not true? Sometimes you have games that have tiny budgets and no promotion and come out to be sleeper hits. For example, katamari damacy and the original wario ware. In halos case, I know a shitload of people who would argue to the death on how good that game is. It recieved high ratings but a shit load of people actually love that game and they have strong opinions and facts to back them up. To say its over rated IMO is actually a matter of opinion. Compare it to alot of FPS games and it stands out pretty well.
Now in defense of FF7, the game was a big step in the FF series as far as presentation, and story telling. The game made a huge leap from the snes and that can not be denied. As far as storyline I think its a matter of opinion. I actually liked the storyline. It wasnt the same old lets return the crystals to save the world/hey Im the main character and Im the chose one, let me get a group of friends and save the world. It was a complicated storyline and was a breath of fresh air imo. As far as the battle system goes, I actually like the materia system. I really didnt have a problem with making an uber team. Whats so bad about that? The characters were great. As far as cloud he was a departure from the normal rpg main characters who is the chose one and is destined to save the world. Was it my favorite rpg, no but it was a damn good game IMO. So do I agree with the article saying greatest games of all time, for the game it is and what it did for rpg gaming, yes it belongs amongst the best. Go ahead start the scrutiny/ insults.
Yeah, but still, 77% and 78% really aren’t that good of scores. I personally have never played Advent Rising since i own the ps2 and regretably, the gamecube. I only saw on television and read in magazines this game being shredded by reviewers. Each and every reviewer that rated this game low mentioned something about how much advertising this game had. As I said before advertising influence can only go so far.
Its funny because when the whole issue of bribing was brought up advent rising was one of the games that popped into my head. That game was marketed heavily and from what I remember got pretty mediocre reviews. If I remember correctly this game even had a money give away sweepstakes. In other forms of media, movies like waterworld who were heavily marketed and the budgets were big, tanked and were reviewed harshly. Its not always the case where big games, movies etc get the best ratings.
Take another game like NBA 07 the show, it has Kobe on the cover and has mutliple ads on tv, web sites and magazines and it was given bad reviews. Obviously there was alot of money involved. Alot of games with alot of money involved in its production and promotion dont always get high ratings. Games with the big budgets usually come out better than low budget games because better teams are assembled to make them. Is this not true? Sometimes you have games that have tiny budgets and no promotion and come out to be sleeper hits. For example, katamari damacy and the original wario ware. In halos case, I know a shitload of people who would argue to the death on how good that game is. It recieved high ratings but a shit load of people actually love that game and they have strong opinions and facts to back them up. To say its over rated IMO is actually a matter of opinion. Compare it to alot of FPS games and it stands out pretty well.
Now in defense of FF7, the game was a big step in the FF series as far as presentation, and story telling. The game made a huge leap from the snes and that can not be denied. As far as storyline I think its a matter of opinion. I actually liked the storyline. It wasnt the same old lets return the crystals to save the world/hey Im the main character and Im the chose one, let me get a group of friends and save the world. It was a complicated storyline and was a breath of fresh air imo. As far as the battle system goes, I actually like the materia system. I really didnt have a problem with making an uber team. Whats so bad about that? The characters were great. As far as cloud he was a departure from the normal rpg main characters who is the chose one and is destined to save the world. Was it my favorite rpg, no but it was a damn good game IMO. So do I agree with the article saying greatest games of all time, for the game it is and what it did for rpg gaming, yes it belongs amongst the best. Go ahead start the scrutiny/ insults.
Take out the first three paragraphs in the comment and you have a decent arguement with some good points. I had forgotten about that whole million dollar sweepstakes Advent had going.
This is probably the only statement from Iceberg that I’d be satisfied with. For the love of Jesus’ sphincter, shut the fuck up about this physical violence bullshit zetsumei.
I love you too Joan
Did the ones that rated it nicely (like GamePro’s 4.5 out of 5–on par with Oblivion, people!) mention the advertising? GamePro didn’t. Like I said before, I like the game, but it’s really not good.
Now in defense of FF7, the game was a big step in the FF series as far as presentation, and story telling. The game made a huge leap from the snes and that can not be denied.
A big step? Why? Because it’s the first to do the 3-d thing, as well as FMV’s? In all honestly, big deal. By then, both 3-d and FMV’s had become pretty much SOP in ps1 games.
As far as storyline I think its a matter of opinion. I actually liked the storyline. It wasnt the same old lets return the crystals to save the world/hey Im the main character and Im the chose one, let me get a group of friends and save the world. It was a complicated storyline and was a breath of fresh air imo.
FFVI didn’t have the "crystals" storyline either. So why is FFVII such a breath of fresh air? Storywise, I’d prefer the word "convoluted" as opposed to "complicated," but that’s just semantics.
As far as the battle system goes, I actually like the materia system. I really didnt have a problem with making an uber team. Whats so bad about that?
So you like pressing X five times and watching the game for ten minutes? That’s your uber team, W-Summon, KotR, and Mime. Two of those Materia you can only find if you’ve looked at a guide or something along those lines–if that isn’t complete crap, I’d like you to tell me what is.
The characters were great. As far as cloud he was a departure from the normal rpg main characters who is the chose one and is destined to save the world.
Look at Terra. She bears a major similarity with Cloud, namely an identity crisis. Hers, however, is done far better than Cloud’s. Also, the "departure" had already been done, so why should Cloud get any special consideration for being a departure?
A big step? Why? Because it’s the first to do the 3-d thing, as well as FMV’s? In all honestly, big deal. By then, both 3-d and FMV’s had become pretty much SOP in ps1 games.
FFVI didn’t have the "crystals" storyline either. So why is FFVII such a breath of fresh air? Storywise, I’d prefer the word "convoluted" as opposed to "complicated," but that’s just semantics.
So you like pressing X five times and watching the game for ten minutes? That’s your uber team, W-Summon, KotR, and Mime. Two of those Materia you can only find if you’ve looked at a guide or something along those lines–if that isn’t complete crap, I’d like you to tell me what is.
Look at Terra. She bears a major similarity with Cloud, namely an identity crisis. Hers, however, is done far better than Cloud’s. Also, the "departure" had already been done, so why should Cloud get any special consideration for being a departure?
IMO the FF series taking a succesful jump into 3D gaming territory is actually a big deal. Alot of companies try and fail making the next gen leap ie. bubsy and earthworm jim
Honestly for me, the whole long summon cinematic didnt bother me too much. I was able to play the game and multi task. Most of the game I was extremely strong so i didnt use summons too much. Actually after playing FF7 and 8, then jumping into 9 and seeing what they did with the summons kind of disappointed me. I guess it all comes down to a matter of taste. As for finding the summons, it really didnt take a guide to do so. There is a thing called "exploration" and using that method would allow someone with the patience to find it.
As for FF6, I never really got a chance to play the game fully. I have it on the ps1 and never really got into it too much so as far as storyline and characters go, I cant comment on them too much. At the time of FF3 for the snes, I was too busy with chrono trigger. So for me, Cloud was a departure from the normal rpg character and the storyline was a breath of fresh air.
Onomatopoeias make your point seem less intelligent. I’m not just tossing an insult at you; it’s just a piece of advice.
Joan as far as the whole god thing, I put maybe as an honest answer. Would you believe me, no of course not cause you were trying to make a point. Im not the most religious person you’ll find around but I know plenty of people who have alot of input as to why the feel there is such a high being. But that is a whole other thread in itself. It was a really bad comparison by the way.
You don’t need proof to believe something; you just need a compelling reason, but I’ll get to that later.
FF1WithAllThieves, Im not asking everyone to jump on and believe what Im saying or follow my opinion, but I am entitled to beleive what I want.
I never told you to believe the "backscratching"; I merely told you not to throw it out jus because there isn’t any concrete evidence.
Am I right or wrong. So you are trying to say because this whole bribe bullshit was brought up, Im suppose to just say yeah that happened and thats the end of the story?
Of course not. But you seem to be dismissing the idea as some bullshit excuse that Prak made up to throw out the reviews. Reviews can be considered when arguing the quality of the game, but it has little bearing, as I’ve stated before, and not just because there’s possibly "backscratching" going on.
I havent completely ruled that out, but with this forum the big thing is proof. I hear that all the time, wheres the proof, back up your argument etc. This is a really bold statement to say such things are going on. Why shouldnt there be some proof.
It isn’t as bold a statement as you might think because like I’ve said numerous times, it’s completely legal. In the United States, millions of dollars are contributed for political campaigns by special interest groups. The active segments of these groups are called Political Action Committees, or PACs. PACs raise money and donate it to the election campaigns of many members of Congress in order to influence their legislation. There’s substantial evidence that this tactic is successful, too: in the United States, there is no law preventing underage smokers from smoking; the law only prohibits the sale of tobacco products to minors. Well, that makes very little sense, and without numerous contributions for election campaigns, legislators would change this. If you want me to, I can prove that this is exactly the kind of thing that PACs do, and that it’s all completely legal (although there’s probably some illegal stuff going on too, but that’s irrelevant). It’s a very similar kind of thing to this "backscratching," so I see no stretch in logic to think that this advertising money thing influences reviews.
So I can easily say FF1WithAllThieves, likes men. Someone asks me to show proof I can say, I dont need proof, men on ocassion like other men and I think FF1WithAllThieves likes men and thats the end of it. No, those aligations can not be brought up without some sort of evidence.
The reason your allegations are completely thrown out the window in this case is that you don’t know me at all and nobody has any reason to believe you. It’s not so much that you don’t have proof as it is that it’s extremely obvious you just made that up.
If not then its just speculation.
the idea of the advertising money is a possible explanation for FFVII’s reviews.
Oh by the way I could care less if you are getting irritated.
*cries* He doesn’t care about me!
Its funny because when the whole issue of bribing was brought up advent rising was one of the games that popped into my head. That game was marketed heavily and from what I remember got pretty mediocre reviews. If I remember correctly this game even had a money give away sweepstakes.
If you remember correctly? What if you don’t? There’s not a compelling reason to believe you, so in this case you need proof.
In other forms of media, movies like waterworld who were heavily marketed and the budgets were big, tanked and were reviewed harshly. Its not always the case where big games, movies etc get the best ratings.
Last time I checked, movies didn’t advertise in reviewing magazines, so there was no money involved for publishers and editors by giving favorable reviews.
Take another game like NBA 07 the show, it has Kobe on the cover and has mutliple ads on tv, web sites and magazines and it was given bad reviews. Obviously there was alot of money involved. Alot of games with alot of money involved in its production and promotion dont always get high ratings.
NBA 07 is just another sports game that wasn’t expected to be anything big. However, I will give you that FFVII is probably a better game than NBA 07, although I’ve never played NBA 07. NBA 07 may have just been below the quality limit, and reviewers had to give it bad reviews to maintain credibility. I would be able to argue this point better if I had ever played NBA 07, TBH.
Games with the big budgets usually come out better than low budget games because better teams are assembled to make them. Is this not true?
I’m sure this is true in general, but didn’t you just say NBA 07 had a huge budget involved and got bad reviews anyway?
Sometimes you have games that have tiny budgets and no promotion and come out to be sleeper hits. For example, katamari damacy and the original wario ware.
I’ve never played those games, but you just switched sides again. Are you trying to say that budget does or doesn’t influence a game’s quality? And I already know there are exceptions to whichever you say, although that doesn’t necessarily discredit your point. Just make up your mind.
In halos case, I know a shitload of people who would argue to the death on how good that game is. It recieved high ratings but a shit load of people actually love that game and they have strong opinions and facts to back them up.
I know people that would defend it, too. I can’t really argue about Halo as I’m just not a big fan of FPS games, nor do I own a new-generation console, so I really don’t know much about Halo.
To say its over rated IMO is actually a matter of opinion.
Of course it is, but that doesn’t mean you can’t provide a very convincing argument as to whether a game is overrated.
Compare it to alot of FPS games and it stands out pretty well.
I believe that’s because FPS games are pure shit, but that’s kind of irrelevant.
Now in defense of FF7, the game was a big step in the FF series as far as presentation, and story telling. The game made a huge leap from the snes and that can not be denied.
In presentation, yes, the graphics were better, but that was simply because they had a better console to work with. Actually, I attribute many of the game’s flaws to the fact that Square was just learning what they could do with the new PS. However, the midi in FFVII is awful; FFVI had much better midi sound quality: another thing I attribute to the new system. As for storytelling, how do you say the PS provided for better possibilities?
As far as storyline I think its a matter of opinion. I actually liked the storyline.
Yes, it’s a matter of opinion, but as I said, opinions are debatable.
It wasnt the same old lets return the crystals to save the world/hey Im the main character and Im the chose one, let me get a group of friends and save the world.
You mostly seem to be referring to FFIV, but I’ll address that one in a bit. In the mean time, what about FFVI? Where were the crystals in that game? Also, Terra may have been "the chosen one" at the beginning, but she shifts out of the focus as the game progresses. In the end, actually, Celes becomes the point of focus. FFVI’s story was hardly typical at all, and FFVII didn’t make a leap in storyline from it in any way.
As for FFIV, the central plotline is pretty basic, but there’s a whole lot more behind that basic plotline. Cecil has to overcome his past deeds and embrace the role of the hero on Mt. Ordeals, and he (spoiler if you haven’t played FFIV at all) even has to bring himself to face his best friend, Kain.
FFVII, on the other hand, had a somewhat disconnected plotline. Cloud is first a mercenary without a motive helping AVALANCHE; suddenly, Cloud finds out Sephiroth returned and immediately comes to the conclusion that killing Sephiroth will save the planet. Forget about the Shinra; if they kill Sephiroth, the planet will be automatically saved. Do you see the lack of connection? I’m not saying FFVII’s plot completely sucked balls, (although Prak probably is) but the plot certainly isn’t as good as many have hailed it to be.
It was a complicated storyline and was a breath of fresh air imo.
FFVII definitely did not have a complicated storyline in comparison.
In FFVI, Terra first ultimately makes the decision to help the Returners, a desperate group fighting a millitant Empire. But soon, Kefka finds incredible power and the party realizes that they are the only ones who can stop him.
FFVII’s plot does not have that kind of twist; for nearly the whole game, the party is simply chasing after Sephiroth and trying to kill him. So Aeris dies in the process; that only solidifies their goal. Cloud ha an identity crisis. Well, tough luck there, but he comes out OK and they go back after Sephiroth again. In the end, they find out that Meteor can be stopped, but wait, they have to kill Sephiroth to release Holy. The whole plot is just about killing Sephiroth. It’s not too horribly bad, but it certainly doesn’t make for a complex plot.
As far as the battle system goes, I actually like the materia system. I really didnt have a problem with making an uber team. Whats so bad about that?
The characters lose their individual value. To me, the materia system was an experiment that turned out OK, but not incredibly well. Actually, I liked it too, but that’s because I always choose my characters for silly reasons anyway.
The characters were great. As far as cloud he was a departure from the normal rpg main characters who is the chose one and is destined to save the world.
That doesn’t necessarily make him a good character. He was pretty badly developed and merely acted as an archetype of a strong, silent type. The game had a great opportunity to develop his character when showing his past, but instead it just told you more of what you knew about him and told you how his memories were faulty. His character was improperly developed, as were many of the others.
Was it my favorite rpg, no but it was a damn good game IMO. So do I agree with the article saying greatest games of all time, for the game it is and what it did for rpg gaming, yes it belongs amongst the best. Go ahead start the scrutiny/ insults.
You get no insults from me because you’re just stating your opinion, and your opinion, while it has no bearing on a debate – a truly skilled debatist can win a debate in favor of the argument he doesn’t believe in – is entirely up to you. Furthermore, you don’t say it’s the greatest RPG of all time, which shows you are willing to listen to reason. Behind all the bad arguments you’ve made, you do have a decently respectable brain, you know.
You don’t need proof to believe something; you just need a compelling reason, but I’ll get to that later.
I never told you to believe the "backscratching"; I merely told you not to throw it out jus because there isn’t any concrete evidence.
Of course not. But you seem to be dismissing the idea as some bullshit excuse that Prak made up to throw out the reviews. Reviews can be considered when arguing the quality of the game, but it has little bearing, as I’ve stated before, and not just because there’s possibly "backscratching" going on.
It isn’t as bold a statement as you might think because like I’ve said numerous times, it’s completely legal. In the United States, millions of dollars are contributed for political campaigns by special interest groups. The active segments of these groups are called Political Action Committees, or PACs. PACs raise money and donate it to the election campaigns of many members of Congress in order to influence their legislation. There’s substantial evidence that this tactic is successful, too: in the United States, there is no law preventing underage smokers from smoking; the law only prohibits the sale of tobacco products to minors. Well, that makes very little sense, and without numerous contributions for election campaigns, legislators would change this. If you want me to, I can prove that this is exactly the kind of thing that PACs do, and that it’s all completely legal (although there’s probably some illegal stuff going on too, but that’s irrelevant). It’s a very similar kind of thing to this "backscratching," so I see no stretch in logic to think that this advertising money thing influences reviews.
The reason your allegations are completely thrown out the window in this case is that you don’t know me at all and nobody has any reason to believe you. It’s not so much that you don’t have proof as it is that it’s extremely obvious you just made that up.
the idea of the advertising money is a possible explanation for FFVII’s reviews.
*cries* He doesn’t care about me!
If you remember correctly? What if you don’t? There’s not a compelling reason to believe you, so in this case you need proof.
Last time I checked, movies didn’t advertise in reviewing magazines, so there was no money involved for publishers and editors by giving favorable reviews.
NBA 07 is just another sports game that wasn’t expected to be anything big. However, I will give you that FFVII is probably a better game than NBA 07, although I’ve never played NBA 07. NBA 07 may have just been below the quality limit, and reviewers had to give it bad reviews to maintain credibility. I would be able to argue this point better if I had ever played NBA 07, TBH.
I’m sure this is true in general, but didn’t you just say NBA 07 had a huge budget involved and got bad reviews anyway?
I’ve never played those games, but you just switched sides again. Are you trying to say that budget does or doesn’t influence a game’s quality? And I already know there are exceptions to whichever you say, although that doesn’t necessarily discredit your point. Just make up your mind.
I know people that would defend it, too. I can’t really argue about Halo as I’m just not a big fan of FPS games, nor do I own a new-generation console, so I really don’t know much about Halo.
Of course it is, but that doesn’t mean you can’t provide a very convincing argument as to whether a game is overrated.
I believe that’s because FPS games are pure shit, but that’s kind of irrelevant.
In presentation, yes, the graphics were better, but that was simply because they had a better console to work with. Actually, I attribute many of the game’s flaws to the fact that Square was just learning what they could do with the new PS. However, the midi in FFVII is awful; FFVI had much better midi sound quality: another thing I attribute to the new system. As for storytelling, how do you say the PS provided for better possibilities?
Yes, it’s a matter of opinion, but as I said, opinions are debatable.
You mostly seem to be referring to FFIV, but I’ll address that one in a bit. In the mean time, what about FFVI? Where were the crystals in that game? Also, Terra may have been "the chosen one" at the beginning, but she shifts out of the focus as the game progresses. In the end, actually, Celes becomes the point of focus. FFVI’s story was hardly typical at all, and FFVII didn’t make a leap in storyline from it in any way.
As for FFIV, the central plotline is pretty basic, but there’s a whole lot more behind that basic plotline. Cecil has to overcome his past deeds and embrace the role of the hero on Mt. Ordeals, and he (spoiler if you haven’t played FFIV at all) even has to bring himself to face his best friend, Kain.
FFVII, on the other hand, had a somewhat disconnected plotline. Cloud is first a mercenary without a motive helping AVALANCHE; suddenly, Cloud finds out Sephiroth returned and immediately comes to the conclusion that killing Sephiroth will save the planet. Forget about the Shinra; if they kill Sephiroth, the planet will be automatically saved. Do you see the lack of connection? I’m not saying FFVII’s plot completely sucked balls, (although Prak probably is) but the plot certainly isn’t as good as many have hailed it to be.
FFVII definitely did not have a complicated storyline in comparison.
In FFVI, Terra first ultimately makes the decision to help the Returners, a desperate group fighting a millitant Empire. But soon, Kefka finds incredible power and the party realizes that they are the only ones who can stop him.
FFVII’s plot does not have that kind of twist; for nearly the whole game, the party is simply chasing after Sephiroth and trying to kill him. So Aeris dies in the process; that only solidifies their goal. Cloud ha an identity crisis. Well, tough luck there, but he comes out OK and they go back after Sephiroth again. In the end, they find out that Meteor can be stopped, but wait, they have to kill Sephiroth to release Holy. The whole plot is just about killing Sephiroth. It’s not too horribly bad, but it certainly doesn’t make for a complex plot.
The characters lose their individual value. To me, the materia system was an experiment that turned out OK, but not incredibly well. Actually, I liked it too, but that’s because I always choose my characters for silly reasons anyway.
That doesn’t necessarily make him a good character. He was pretty badly developed and merely acted as an archetype of a strong, silent type. The game had a great opportunity to develop his character when showing his past, but instead it just told you more of what you knew about him and told you how his memories were faulty. His character was improperly developed, as were many of the others.
You get no insults from me because you’re just stating your opinion, and your opinion, while it has no bearing on a debate – a truly skilled debatist can win a debate in favor of the argument he doesn’t believe in – is entirely up to you. Furthermore, you don’t say it’s the greatest RPG of all time, which shows you are willing to listen to reason. Behind all the bad arguments you’ve made, you do have a decently respectable brain, you know.
My allegations don???t get thrown out the window (although I don???t really think you like men) because I don???t know you, you???re right but do you guys know anyone who reviewed FF7? Were you sitting next to them when the reviews were written? I would assume not. So how can you tell with what bias or what motives they had while writing the review? Were you there with them when they played the game? No, so how can you tell if they genuinely enjoyed the game? You said the advertising money is a ???possible??? explanation for the reviews. It???s not a concrete explanation, therefore its holds little bearings.
You want proof of the advent rising sweepstakes, here http://www.gamespot.com/news/6131530.html?q=advent%20rising. The contest was scrapped but it did exist.
Movies don???t advertise in any reviewing magazines? That???s odd, they don???t advertise in entertainment weekly, or maxim or any other magazines? These magazines do give movie reviews if I???m not mistaken.
As for switching sides on my argument, I was merely showing both sides of the coin. Games with big budgets such as FF7, Halo etc. usually come out better because the game is being made with much better resources. The reason I switched sides was to show this doesn???t always happen, and games with small budgets ie. Katamari damacy and wario ware can outshine other games. But you do have the occasional game like advent rising who is marketed heavily and reviewed pretty badly and just suck.
As for fps, most console fps games suck. Pc ones are usually better.
Opinions are debatable, debate away. Just ask people to leave the insults at home. They are not needed.
Crap. Utter crap. You mean to imply that you found KotR’s island by "exploration?" Without knowing exactly where to look for it, it’d require an absurd amount of luck to spot the island. The other "Materia Caves" I can understand exploring for, but not KotR’s.
As for FF6, I never really got a chance to play the game fully.
I hope you realize that statement completely invalidates your "fresh air" point.
IMO the FF series taking a succesful jump into 3D gaming territory is actually a big deal. Alot of companies try and fail making the next gen leap ie. bubsy and earthworm jim
And why does that matter? As I’ve said, 3d games were SOP by the time FFVII was released; 3d games had been released for over a year by late ’97.
You want proof of the advent rising sweepstakes, here http://www.gamespot.com/news/6131530…dvent%20rising. The contest was scrapped but it did exist.
What exactly does the scrapped contest have to do with anything? While we’re at it, congrats on completely ignoring me posting about GamePro’s review.
edit: btw, GamePro gave AR the same score as they did Oblivion. I’ve said that already, but since it was so conviently ignored…
I hope you realize that statement completely invalidates your "fresh air" point.
And why does that matter? As I’ve said, 3d games were SOP by the time FFVII was released; 3d games had been released for over a year by late ’97.
What exactly does the scrapped contest have to do with anything? While we’re at it, congrats on completely ignoring me posting about GamePro’s review.
edit: btw, GamePro gave AR the same score as they did Oblivion. I’ve said that already, but since it was so conviently ignored…
I found Kotor on my own. I actually bought the FF7 strategy guide about 3 years ago in barnes and noble. Believe me or not, I did.
Yes there were 3D games before FF7, but a good rpg, in 3D? Plus for an individual company going from one platform to another can either make or break them. And it was important that they nailed it and IMO they did.
Ok so my fresh air point goes down the drain. Point taken.
The scrapped contest was brought up cause I was asked to to show proof of it.
Your statement was not ignored on purpose. I honestly didnt notice it as it wasnt directed towards me, sorry. I actually lost all faith in gamepro. Growing up I was subscribed to them but they became a shit magazine. Look at what IGN and gamespot gave advent rising. They gave it really bad reviews. These are the sites that are usually given a bad rap at this forum. Oblivion was obviously leaps and bounds above advent rising.
Yes there were 3D games before FF7, but a good rpg, in 3D? Plus for an individual company going from one platform to another can either make or break them. And it was important that they nailed it and IMO they did.
Ok so my fresh air point goes down the drain. Point taken.
The scrapped contest was brought up cause I was asked to to show proof of it.
Your statement was not ignored on purpose. I honestly didnt notice it as it wasnt directed towards me, sorry. I actually lost all faith in gamepro. Growing up I was subscribed to them but they became a shit magazine. Look at what IGN and gamespot game advent rising. They gave it really bad reviews. These are the sites that are usually given a bad rap at this forum. Oblivion was obviously leaps and bounds above advent rising.
just to let you know…there are no real 3D games
they’re projected onto a 2D surface, so how can 3 dimensions exist ona plane that only has 2?
and, to be honest, FF7 failed to even simulate a 3D environment (i.e. they did hardly anything cutscene-wise to show that the spaces they created were meant to be in a sense 3-dimensional)
to cut back to one of your earlier posts…FF7 was a step BACK in terms of story telling and was not even close in terms of presentation as FF6 was, the music was simplistic compared to Seiken Densetsu, FF6, and FF4, the materia system took away the strategy in battles as each character could be equipped in similar fashions, thus taking character selection down to prefrence rather than necessity
if there’s anything that FF7 revolutionized, it was a revolution in successfully marketing and selling utter bullshit
Exactly what does the genre of a particular game has to do with the 2d/3d transition? Like I’ve said twice now, 3-d was SOP by the time FFVII was released. A hundred development teams made the transition by late ’97.
Oblivion was obviously leaps and bounds above advent rising.
And thus my point is validated.
And thus my point is validated.
The genre of a game might not have to do alot with its transition but
imo with rpgs it means a lot. Take a look at the sports genre. Maddens
transition from snes/genesis to ps1/saturn/ 64 was not the smoothest.
But why does the football genre continue to be successful even though
its most popular franchise sucked at the time, because people love
football. People play the sport on a recreational basis and they watch
it at home on the television. They even bet on the sport. So what
happens, gameday comes along and steals maddens thunder. Gameday
becomes succesful anyway and the football game genre is still alive. Ea had to take a year off to perfect madden. But the genre still remained popular because football has worldwide appeal so regardless of what title is on the market it will always be a healthy genre. In the case of rpgs, it doesn’t have mass appeal. Most people didn’t even own an rpg for the nes unless you count zelda. If that’s even considered an rpg as some people do. The snes comes along with some great titles chrono trigger, ff6 etc but the genre isn’t extremely popluar. Most people known for playing these games are labled geeks, or nerds. The next gen comes along. Ps1 is very popluar but before ff7 hits what’s the most popluar rpg franchise at the time? Anyone know? Ff7 hits and opens everyones eyes to the rpg genre. Blame the marketing if you want, but it was a huge success. Rpgs now start to gain mass appeal. More and more people are playing games now. As every next gen system comes out and games evolve, we get more and
more gamers. Of course the jump from one console to the next is important. In rpgs defense it was huge that ff7 was successful. After the ff series, what’s the next most popular us rpg series. I feel if ff fails the rpg genre will go under the radar again. Ff is the flagship title for the genre. Most people think ff they think rpg. Alot of credit has to be given to ff7 for that. If its jump to 3d/ next gen wasn’t successful who knows where the series or the genre would be. Of course this is what I feel about the topic, many will disagree. I’m ready for the backlash now lol.Ok so oblivion was rated the same as advent rising. We already proved that the games with the most marketing aren’t always the most succesful, with advent rising being a specific example. What’s the point you are getting at? Maybe the reviewer at gamepro actually thought it was a good game. All reviewers don’t always agree. For example, I read a lot of reviews and ill use pokemon dungeon for example. I’ve seen reviews go from the game is highly addicitive to the game is boring as shit. Mind you this game was marketed pretty well with many magazine ads and tv ads. Reviewers don’t always agree. Look at other reviews for advent rising on other sites and search for an oblivion review at the same site other than gamepro of course.
sorry for post looking shitty but I emailed response from my sidekick while I was on train and Im too lazy to fix lol.
Super Mario RPG. 😛
Good example if most people would consider that but thats one game. Did it bring rpgs into the mainstream?
as for your notion that there are more and more people playing games…it’s not because of FF7…it’s because of population growth, convenience (meaning…people have more time to kill because they can perform daily tasks quicker), both parents working (i.e. they buy kids video games for the instant gratification factor), etc.
if you ask me, i find it funny that Square tries to label their games as rpgs…
and if you ask me…i think it’d be better if the rpg industry went under the radar again, at least we wouldn’t have to deal with all the mainstream bullshit that Square packs into their games
Square has done NOTHING aside from create games that are nothing more than interactive storybooks
rpgs were intended to be played towards no specific goal of "winning"…so they can’t end
nor were they intended to be played under pre-determined stories…the players themselves created the story as they went
the allegations that you made concerning ff7 "opening the rpg genre" need to be backed by EVIDENCE…not heresay
*edit*
Good example if most people would consider that but thats one game. Did it bring rpgs into the mainstream?
what pure, untainted evidence do you have that clearly states that ff7 is what brought rpgs into the mainstream?
as for your notion that there are more and more people playing games…it’s not because of FF7…it’s because of population growth, convenience (meaning…people have more time to kill because they can perform daily tasks quicker), both parents working (i.e. they buy kids video games for the instant gratification factor), etc.
if you ask me, i find it funny that Square tries to label their games as rpgs…
and if you ask me…i think it’d be better if the rpg industry went under the radar again, at least we wouldn’t have to deal with all the mainstream bullshit that Square packs into their games
Square has done NOTHING aside from create games that are nothing more than interactive storybooks
rpgs were intended to be played towards no specific goal of "winning"…so they can’t end
nor were they intended to be played under pre-determined stories…the players themselves created the story as they went
the allegations that you made concerning ff7 "opening the rpg genre" need to be backed by EVIDENCE…not heresay
*edit*
what pure, untainted evidence do you have that clearly states that ff7 is what brought rpgs into the mainstream?
I never said more people are playing games because of FF7. I said more and more people are playing games and the jump to next gen is important.
Not only does square regard their games as rpgs, but magazines and stores do so to.
Name another rpg that brought rpgs into mainstream.
they’re projected onto a 2D surface, so how can 3 dimensions exist ona plane that only has 2?
and, to be honest, FF7 failed to even simulate a 3D environment (i.e. they did hardly anything cutscene-wise to show that the spaces they created were meant to be in a sense 3-dimensional)
Its annoying when people get technical about things that really don’t matter. Like when people complain about the real definition of an RPG. The definition people use is slang. If your not smart enough to know what someones talking about when they call a game like FFX 3-d and a game like Super Mario 2-d then you are probably not intelligent enough to be on forums.
the music was simplistic compared to Seiken Densetsu, FF6, and FF4, the materia system took away the strategy in battles
Simply saying a game has better music then another game without backing it up gives you as much credibility as a fanboy who says " FFVII IS THE BEST GAME EVR!!" I havent played all of the FF games, but I can say that all of the ones I have played have taken litte strategy, not counting FFT. I don’t call training your hero for shitloads of hours and then destroying a boss with pure strength, skill. I have used this "strategy" on all FF games i have played (FIV, FVII,FVIII,FX) and so far they have worked.
if there’s anything that FF7 revolutionized, it was a revolution in successfully marketing and selling utter bullshit
Again pure opinion until proven with facts.
so…i guess that transition needs a little work then right?
I never said more people are playing games because of FF7. I said more and more people are playing games and the jump to next gen is important.
Not only does square regard their games as rpgs, but magazines and stores do so to.
Name another rpg that brought rpgs into mainstream.
uhh…just to let you know…rpgs aren’t in the mainstream…
if you still wanna argue then you’d have to admit that rpgs are of the same caliber and material as sex, drugs, violence, rap, and the like
usually in the case of conforming to the mainstream, peer pressure is used
do you see kids getting pressured into playing video games on a daily basis?…no
did you see ff7 featured in the mainstream media and it’s associates as a game of phenomenal social impact?…no…that went to GTA and the whole "video games make kids violent" argument
(commerials and ads don’t count as they’re paid for by the game producers)
*edit*
Its annoying when people get technical about things that really don’t matter. Like when people complain about the real definition of an RPG. The definition people use is slang. If your not smart enough to know what someones talking about when they call a game like FFX 3-d and a game like Super Mario 2-d then you are probably not intelligent enough to be on forums.
Simply saying a game has better music then another game without backing it up gives you as much credibility as a fanboy who says " FFVII IS THE BEST GAME EVR!!" I havent played all of the FF games, but I can say that all of the ones I have played have taken litte strategy, not counting FFT. I don’t call training your hero for shitloads of hours and then destroying a boss with pure strength, skill. I have used this "strategy" on all FF games i have played (FIV, FVII,FVIII,FX) and so far they have worked.
Again pure opinion until proven with facts.
i notice that FF6 is missing from your list
and if you’re not capable of comprehending that 3-dimensions can’t exist on a 2-dimensional plane then you need to go to school and spend less time on forums
just to let you know…i’m double majoring in Music and Physics…so both of the arguments posed in the post you referenced to have more weight than your accusations as to their validity
double post…curse this blackberry
uhh…just to let you know…rpgs aren’t in the mainstream…
if you still wanna argue then you’d have to admit that rpgs are of the same caliber and material as sex, drugs, violence, rap, and the like
usually in the case of conforming to the mainstream, peer pressure is used
do you see kids getting pressured into playing video games on a daily basis?…no
did you see ff7 featured in the mainstream media and it’s associates as a game of phenomenal social impact?…no…that went to GTA and the whole "video games make kids violent" argument
(commerials and ads don’t count as they’re paid for by the game producers)
In your opinion it needs work.
Selling millions of copies is considered a mainstream success. I really dont know what your definition of mainstream is lol.
Selling millions of copies is considered a mainstream success.
so you go from referencing the hit that ff7 was…and you move immediately to say that there are more people playing games
as for selling millions of copies…think about it…the same goes for just about anything that roots deep enough in a good population
in order for ff7 to be considered a mainstream success, it would have to touch on a part of just about everyone’s life…thus the nomenclature MAINSTREAM
to give an example of this, the band Insane Clown Posse has also sold millions of records but is not considered to be mainstream as their music does not play significantly into the lives of people that are surveyed
the same can be said of ff7…it’s advertisements were not on the radio/tv everyday
get out of the house more Iceberg and take a look at what’s around you…even back then, people everywhere weren’t buzzing about ff7…there was more of a buzz about the sentencing of Timothy McVeigh than the hype over ff7
as for selling millions of copies…think about it…the same goes for just about anything that roots deep enough in a good population
in order for ff7 to be considered a mainstream success, it would have to touch on a part of just about everyone’s life…thus the nomenclature MAINSTREAM
to give an example of this, the band Insane Clown Posse has also sold millions of records but is not considered to be mainstream as their music does not play significantly into the lives of people that are surveyed
the same can be said of ff7…it’s advertisements were not on the radio/tv everyday
get out of the house more Iceberg and take a look at what’s around you…even back then, people everywhere weren’t buzzing about ff7…there was more of a buzz about the sentencing of Timothy McVeigh than the hype over ff7
A nationwide tragedy does not compare to a videogame, bad example.
Insane clown posse did sell millions of records? I must have missed that.
FF7 wasnt on tv everyday? So what was the heavy marketing blitz everyones bitching about?
True, I heard around that it is a great game but i rarely see it and when i do it is jacked up to a high price because it’s considered "rare". I heard they were remaking it for the GBA a while ago so I’m planning on wating till it’s released.
and if you’re not capable of comprehending that 3-dimensions can’t exist on a 2-dimensional plane then you need to go to school and spend less time on forums
I recomend the same if you don’t know what slang is.
Luckily though I do know the technical definition of 3-d and i do go to school.
just to let you know…i’m double majoring in Music and Physics…so both of the arguments posed in the post you referenced to have more weight than your accusations as to their validity
Maybe. I’ve known many teachers and people who suck at what they do. Just because someone goes to college doesn’t mean they are smarter than someone who doesn’t. Although I can’t say that for you since I don’t know you.
I recomend the same if you don’t know what slang is.
just to let you know…i’m double majoring in Music and Physics…so both of the arguments posed in the post you referenced to have more weight than your accusations as to their validity
Maybe. I’ve known many teachers and people who suck at what they do. Just because someone goes to college doesn’t mean they are smarter than someone who doesn’t. Although I can’t say that for you since I don’t know you.
slang isn’t always right my friend 😛
fyi…i don’t go around flaunting my education, i was using it as an crutch for my argument in order to give it validity
fyi…i don’t go around flaunting my education, i was using it as an crutch for my argument in order to give it validity
very true, Ghetto people pretty much butchered slang. But what icebrerg was speaking of wasn’t a matter of right or wrong, it was a matter of knowing what he was talking about.
yup…which is why i try to avoid slang whenever possible 😀
Good for you, down with ghetto people.
they’re already pretty rundown as is…what more can be done?
It is important for the company. The companies popualrity grew after FF7. That means nothing?
*Grabs 12 guage* well….
It is important for the company. The companies popualrity grew after FF7. That means nothing?
It means something. Not saying they couldn’t have done alot better but hey, it got the job done.
Oh, it’s certainly important for the company. I meant it isn’t important for the purposes of this debate, as we’re specifically arguing whether popularity and high reviews tell accurately what the quality of FFVII is. None of us will dispute that the game is popular.
It means something. Not saying they couldn’t have done alot better but hey, it got the job done.
In business a company can always do better. Im pretty sure Bill Gate is still looking for ways to improve to make his company more money. They are never satisfied.
it grew…then it was bought out by Enix (as for their motives for the buy-out, i’m not sure…but i KNOW that Square was assimilated by Enix)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_Enix
it’s in the first paragraph of that entry
Square holders got .81 and Enix shareholders recieved a full 1-to-1 trade
in case you want to argue that the president of SquareEnix was the president of Square…i’ll let you know that the direction and vision of a corporatation are not dictated by the president but by the shareholders
Of course, they need to improve to keep up with competition. Without competition, our society would go no where.
Competition is what makes business go round lol. Its a very healthy aspect to our economy.
imo with rpgs it means a lot.
Okay, that’s a contradiction. First you say it probably doesn’t matter, then you say it matters a lot for RPG’s. And then you don’t particularly back it up. If the jump was such a big deal, why were there so many remakes/rereleases of older, 2d games, like, oh, all the "classic" FF’s, Chrono Trigger, and the two Lunars? Besides, you’re still missing my point. Just about everybody was doing 3d stuff by late ’97 (Konami’s CV: SotN being the notable exception), so FFVII isn’t special in any way just because it was the first 3d FF. If it were released at, say, launch, or shortly thereafter, you might have a salient point.
Here’s a somewhat fitting corellary (assuming I spelled that right): Red Steel is getting all kinds of hype, mainly because of its use of the Wiimote and Nunchuck (a new "thing" in gaming, like 3d stuff was at ps1’s launch). In, say, eighteen months, a game with that sort of control won’t be hailed in any way like Red Steel, simply because it will have been done for eighteen months already. Do you see the connection?
I feel if ff fails the rpg genre will go under the radar again.
That’s purely speculation, and in the context of this discussion, quite pointless.
If its jump to 3d/ next gen wasn’t successful who knows where the series or the genre would be.
More pure speculation, and equally as pointless.
Ok so oblivion was rated the same as advent rising. We already proved that the games with the most marketing aren’t always the most succesful, with advent rising being a specific example.
We never proved that. The pattern we established was one of highly advertised games getting higher reviews than they deserve. Also, for the bajillionth time, popularity doesn’t equal quality. We’re not talking about FFVII’s popularity here. We all know how popular FFVII was. We’re trying to discuss its quality.
sorry for post looking shitty but I emailed response from my sidekick while I was on train and Im too lazy to fix lol.
LoL, that post was a pain to work through!
just to let you know…i’m double majoring in Music and Physics…so both of the arguments posed in the post you referenced to have more weight than your accusations as to their validity
Shenanigians. First you play the thug card, with "bullet in the brain" nonsense, now you’re going know-it-all on us? Please, if you’re going to be a know-it-all, at least be relevant.
it was relevant to an argument that i made concerning dimensions with Van Finel
and who said that i’m a know-it-all?
who said that i can’t be a gun fanatic and a music junkie at the same time?
do you know me personally?…no
so don’t go making assumptions
Here’s a somewhat fitting corellary (assuming I spelled that right): Red Steel is getting all kinds of hype, mainly because of its use of the Wiimote and Nunchuck (a new "thing" in gaming, like 3d stuff was at ps1’s launch). In, say, eighteen months, a game with that sort of control won’t be hailed in any way like Red Steel, simply because it will have been done for eighteen months already. Do you see the connection?
That’s purely speculation, and in the context of this discussion, quite pointless.
More pure speculation, and equally as pointless.
We never proved that. The pattern we established was one of highly advertised games getting higher reviews than they deserve. Also, for the bajillionth time, popularity doesn’t equal quality. We’re not talking about FFVII’s popularity here. We all know how popular FFVII was. We’re trying to discuss its quality.
LoL, that post was a pain to work through!
Shenanigians. First you play the thug card, with "bullet in the brain" nonsense, now you’re going know-it-all on us? Please, if you’re going to be a know-it-all, at least be relevant.
I thought I backed it up pretty well, but I guess not. Its important for rpgs because they dont have a strong following like other genres. Its important for the genre to expand in order to bring in new gamers. But before FF7 the genre was pretty lacking as far as a mainstream following goes. As for remakes, we usually dont see to many dramatic changes. It seems rather popular to actually port games rather than remake them. Its simple for the to make alot of money off of an emulated game. The companies make alot of money off of older ports. Hate it or love it, if a FF7 remakes was made with next gen technology as we’ve seen in the tech demo, it would be HUGE. I dont see why SE hasnt pursued this. But a game like chrono trigger did have a follow up and it was in 3D on the ps1, Chrono Cross. FF7 wasnt the first game to go 3d but wasnt it the first rpg to successfully do so? Sometimes being first isnt too important. Lets say maybe this is a bad example but Michael Jordan. Was he the 1st player in a chicago bulls jersey? Was he the 1st basketball player? No but what has he done for his franchise? What has he done for the sport of basketball? Not saying FF7 is the michael Jordan of games but just using an example of not being the first is not always important to outshine others.
If the point I made was pure specualtion and pointless, so is the whole bribing issue. Notice the word "feel" in my post. I was just stating my opinion.
The issue of games with higher budgets = higher reviews was proved. Advent Rising was used as the example. I also used pokemon dungeon in another post as well as NBA 07 the show.
i didn’t blather about it, i used it to back an argument not addressed at YOU
Never said it wasn’t, and in all honestly, it doesn’t matter. Seeing as EVERYTHING ELSE (save SotN) was 3d, sooner or later, there’s bound to be a successful entry into just about every genre. You called FFVII a great game, so I’ve been comparing it to other games when I say stuff like this. The psx had been out for two years before FFVII came around, so it’s safe to say that plenty of 3d games were available for at least eighteen months by FFVII’s release. Because of that, the fact that FFVII is 3d is completely unimportant.
Not saying FF7 is the michael Jordan of games but just using an example of not being the first is not always important to outshine others.
Except that’s exactly what you were saying. MJ was special because he was that freaking good. Many say the best ever. The fact is, FFVII’s graphics weren’t special. They weren’t that freaking good. Definitely not the best ever.
If the point I made was pure specualtion and pointless, so is the whole bribing issue.
Except for two minor details: one, "bribery" was what you came up with to twist the point into something it was not, and two, "we" actually backed up what we said with a pattern.
i didn’t blather about it, i used it to back an argument not addressed at YOU
Because claiming something that can’t be proven either way (namely your precious double-major) holds all sorts of weight in an interweb forum. It’s still shenanagians. You obviously don’t like being called out like that, so what are you going to do, threaten to put a bullet in my head? Or are you going to come up with something even more laughable?
but opinions are totally irrelevant in an argumentative discussion such as this and will remain irrelevant until backed by evidence of some sort
Because claiming something that can’t be proven either way (namely your precious double-major) holds all sorts of weight in an interweb forum. It’s still shenanagians. You obviously don’t like being called out like that, so what are you going to do, threaten to put a bullet in my head? Or are you going to come up with something even more laughable?
how about i put up a copy of my transcript with photo ID?
but then again you’d just go and say that i altered them in some way…so tell me oh great one, what would you like me to do to curb your assumptions?
And you talk so much about assumptions? Mr. Pot, there’s a call from a Mr. Kettle for you.
so tell me oh great one, what would you like me to do to curb your assumptions?
Sorry use of sarcasm aside, you could try making relevant points for a change and back them up with facts instead of saying, "hey, I’ve got a double major, so my argument’s automatically valid."
Except that’s exactly what you were saying. MJ was special because he was that freaking good. Many say the best ever. The fact is, FFVII’s graphics weren’t special. They weren’t that freaking good. Definitely not the best ever.
Except for two minor details: one, "bribery" was what you came up with to twist the point into something it was not, and two, "we" actually backed up what we said with a pattern.
Because claiming something that can’t be proven either way (namely your precious double-major) holds all sorts of weight in an interweb forum. It’s still shenanagians. You obviously don’t like being called out like that, so what are you going to do, threaten to put a bullet in my head? Or are you going to come up with something even more laughable?
If the psx was out for 2 yrs, why werent there any good rpgs games before FF7? Square could have simply used 2d sprites agains to make FF7, but for the series to evolve it made the jump to 3d. IMO as a fan of the series, it was important. So lets say if mario 64 never came out, would you be satisfied with bubsy 3d or even earthworm jim? If any series took rpgs into the next gen, I would rather it be the FF series.
I only used MJ as an example to show that you dont have to be the first at what you do to outshine others. FF7 wasnt the 1st 3D game, of course not, but for a ps1 rpg it was although I might be mistaken. The whole "bribery" thing was not brought up by me. I dont thin I was the first one to use that term in this thread. I do have a bad memory though so fell free to read past posts to prove me wrong.
"but opinions are totally irrelevant in an argumentative discussion such as this and will remain irrelevant until backed by evidence of some sort" Z so why believe the whole FF7 "bribery" speculation? Theres no proof.
Sorry use of sarcasm aside, you could try making relevant points for a change and back them up with facts instead of saying, "hey, I’ve got a double major, so my argument’s automatically valid."
i never said that my majors made my arguments valid
i used them as a background reference as to why i made those statements in the first place
"but opinions are totally irrelevant in an argumentative discussion such as this and will remain irrelevant until backed by evidence of some sort" Z so why believe the whole FF7 "bribery" speculation? Theres no proof.
like Chunky said earlier…there are very strong patterns that suggest this, strong enough to call evidence
I’ve never heard of this until just now….
Hm. I really think that the game is as enjoyable as the reviewers have said….(not all people agree with the reviewers, of course–! You might have a different experience with the game….reviewers are still people.)
But if there actually WAS a bribery….there isn’t much we can do…..
If there was proof and evidence, there could be a lawsuit filed….>< But there isn’t….
Never said it wasn’t, and in all honestly, it doesn’t matter. Seeing as EVERYTHING ELSE (save SotN) was 3d, sooner or later, there’s bound to be a successful entry into just about every genre.
Humf…! That’s like saying, "So what if Watson and Crick were the first to discover the structure of DNA? SOMEONE would eventually have discovered it anyway." And it was true–another woman was only a week behind them (Rosalind Franklin)….But the fact that they came first does matter….
<<
And sorry to bring this up, but I had to say something about this….
Better to worship someone who knows what he’s talking about than a shitty game.
I see why you would say that….>>
But I think there are enough people here worshipping Prak.
And that…"shitty game" you’re talking about….is something I love. Maybe the game wasn’t very impressive to you….maybe I’m not impressive to you…..
I might not be heard, or it might not matter to any of you….
But for those who will listen…I loved this game.
Your opinions matter enough to me…because I feel like I want to reply…I want to see why you guys think the way you do…..
But maybe my opinion…or our opinions….don’t matter to you guys…..
Have I been doing the wrong thing…?
<<
And sorry to bring this up, but I had to say something about this….
I see why you would say that….>>
But I think there are enough people here worshipping Prak.
And that…"shitty game" you’re talking about….is something I love. Maybe the game wasn’t very impressive to you….maybe I’m not impressive to you…and maybe Prak is…..
I might not be heard, or it might not matter to any of you….
But for those who will listen…I loved this game.
Your opinions matter enough to me…because I feel like I want to reply…I want to see why you guys think the way you do…..
But maybe my opinion…or our opinions….don’t matter enough to you guys…..
Have I been doing the wrong thing…?
???? ummmmm ok lol
Seeing as nobody (other than those defending FFVII and twisting the actual argument) accused anybody of bribery, you have a good point. However, the fact is that highly advertised games get better scores than they deserve. We’ve been over this, and you even helped establish the pattern that backs up that assertion. There may be exceptions, but until you can bring up a larger list of highly advertised games that were underrated, saying "no proof! no proof!" isn’t going to get you anywhere.
but for a ps1 rpg it was although I might be mistaken.
Seeing as it was the natural evolution of gaming as a whole, even if it were the first 3d RPG (and I’m not going to argue either way on that), it doesn’t matter. Unless FFVII’s graphics were head and shoulders above everything else released, which they weren’t, your point is useless.
IMO as a fan of the series, it was important.
But once you get past that "I’m a fan" tunnel-vision, it’s not important at all.
Humf…!
See the onomatapeia (I never could spell that…) post a page or two back..
That’s like saying, "So what if Watson and Crick were the first to discover the structure of DNA? SOMEONE would eventually have discovered it anyway." And it was true–another woman was only a week behind them (Rosalind Franklin)….But the fact that they came first does matter….
Wrong. Seeing as 3d games had been out for nearly two years already (and that’s ignoring the 3d titles on SNES and other systems), being the first in a particular genre is pretty much meaningless. If anything, it just shows that as a whole, the genre was behind the times.
Seeing as it was the natural evolution of gaming as a whole, even if it were the first 3d RPG (and I’m not going to argue either way on that), it doesn’t matter. Unless FFVII’s graphics were head and shoulders above everything else released, which they weren’t, your point is useless.
But once you get past that "I’m a fan" tunnel-vision, it’s not important at all.
Its a businesss thing. The companies usually put more money into a product they are faithful in. Thus games they put more money in are better because they are just made to be better games. A better team is assembled, they have better resources, so thats why a better games is usually produced. Of course with some exceptions. I really dont have to much time right now to get a longer list of games, maybe I will sometime this week. But I gave advent rising, nba 07, pokemon dungeon, well almost every pokemon out lol, even a game like mortal kombat armageddon which had mixed reviews and was heavily marketed.
Lets list games that were released prior to FF7 and compare graphics.
I type how I talk. >>
I don’t want to try to make myself sound more intelligent than I really am, and I’m not trying to hide anything from you guys, either. =]
….
But are you saying FFVII did NOT put RPGs into the mainstream, and it was something else that did?
Super Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars
EDIT: More to come when I think of some.
I don’t want to try to make myself sound more intelligent than I really am, and I’m not trying to hide anything from you guys, either. =]
….
But are you saying FFVII did NOT put RPGs into the mainstream, and it was something else that did?
read one of my earlier posts…FFVII was and is in no way "mainstream"…nor are RPGs for that matter
No proof! No proof! Little poke aside, the point of a business is to make money. If a company can get away creating a…less-than-great product, why would they put forth the time and money to do so? At any rate, your assertion holds far less water than the "highly advertised" assertion that I’ve been holding to for like, eight pages.
Lets list games that were released prior to FF7 and compare graphics.
Are you serious?
Just to indulge you, here’s a quick list: Tekken 2 (about 14 months earlier), RE2 (less than two months after, but FAR better), SotN (about a week prior, and still prettier, other than the atrocious FMV’s), and Super Mario RPG. I’ll probably come up with more later.
i think he’s pretty serious about this…but Iceberg…why would graphics of pre-ff7 games be an issue?
i’d take the nicely done sprites of ff6 over the michellin-man figures of ff7 any day of the week
Are you serious?
If our points hold no water, I guess we are even lol.
Yes I’m serious, list the ps1 games released before FF7.
I didnt like tekken 2 too much. Re2 was a great game IMO, the fmvs were good. Castlevania is a classic but not in 3D so I dont know how much comparison can be made there. Super Mario RPG was good but FF7 was better IMO. Name some more rpgs.
Yes I’m serious, list the ps1 games released before FF7.
okay…he’s serious…Tekken 2…release in august of 1995…had better cutscene and in-game graphics than ff7 hands down
*edit in response to iceberg’s edit*
I didnt like tekken 2 too much.
buy why didn’t you like Tekken 2 that much?…oh…i get it…it had better graphics than ff7 so it’s brushed aside…
Shenanagians. You wanted to compare graphics. So you blow Tekken 2 off because you "didn’t like it." Utter crap. You also never stipulated RPG’s in particular. Only after games get brought up that can compare with FFVII do you stipulate. Crap.
I see….
So are you saying FF7 failed in all aspects possible? >>
<<
>>
<<
It did not fail to make me enjoy it! It probably failed for you, but….
…I try to be a "relative" arguer….I want to be open to all the people I talk to.
Oh–
Here’s a list of RPGs released the same year as FF7 (Console RPGs):
Atelier Marie (PS1)
Breath of Fire III (PS1)
Chocobo’s Mysterious Dungeon (PS1)
Dark Law (SNES)
Final Fantasy IV (PS1) (Port)
Final Fantasy VII (PS1)
Final Fantasy Tactics (PS1)
Front Mission 2 (PS1)
Ganparu (SNES)
Grandia (SAT)
Gunman’s Proof (SNES)
Mahou Gakuen Lunar (SAT)
Milandra (SNES)
Princess Crown (SAT)
SaGa Frontier (PS1)
Samurai Shodown RPG (PS1, SAT)
Shining Force III (SAT)
Shining the Holy Ark (SAT)
Tactics Ogre (PS1) (Port)
Tales of Destiny (PS1)
Vandal Hearts (SAT)
And the console RPGs released the year before (1996):
Adventures of Hourai High (SNES)
Airs Adventure (SAT)
Albert Odyssey: Legend of Eldean (SAT)
Arabian Nights (SNES)
Arc The Lad II (PS1)
Bahamut Lagoon (SNES)
Bakumatsu Korinden Oni (SNES)
Blazing Heroes (SAT)
Blue Forest Monogatari (3DO)
Dai Kaijuu Monogatari 2 (SNES)
Dark Half (SNES)
Deception (video game) (PS1)
Fire Emblem: Seisen no Keifu (SNES)
Gulliver Boy (SNES)
King’s Field II (PS1)
Lennus 2 (SNES)
Linkle Liver Story (SAT)
Madara Saga (SNES)
Madou Monogatari (SNES)
Monstania (SNES)
Ogre Battle: March of the Black Queen (SAT) (Port)
Oukoku no Gran Chef (3DO)
Persona (PS1)
Pokémon Red and Blue (GB)
Star Ocean (SNES)
Super Mario RPG (SNES)
Sword & Sorcery (SAT)
Sword of Hope II (GB)
Traverse: Starlight & Prairie (SNES)
Treasure Hunter G (SNES)
Treasure of the Rudras (SNES)
Vandal Hearts (PS1)
Wild Arms (PS1)
Wizardry Gaiden IV (SNES)
FMV-wise, I think FFVII did a beautiful job….
Real-time renders contain divided opinions….Some people believe that the real-time models are effective, and set the "feel" of the game well….others found the real-time models offensive >>
I think what defines graphics as "good" isn’t really the technology and programming behind it….I think good graphics in a game are able to define and create a mood and setting that the developers wished….
That’s why….as outdated, technology-wise, some SNES graphics are…the graphics still are wonderful. Many of the SNES games had graphics that fit with the game nearly perfectly….=]
x2
I see….
So are you saying FF7 failed in all aspects possible? >>
<<
>>
<<
It did not fail to make me enjoy it! It probably failed for you, but….
…I try to be a "relative" arguer….I want to be open to all the people I talk to.
i never said that it failed in all aspects possible…just that it failed in becoming mainstream by definition
buy why didn’t you like Tekken 2 that much?…oh…i get it…it had better graphics than ff7 so it’s brushed aside…
I didnt like tekken 2 because Im not into button mashers. IMO the graphics in tekken were meh. So please ask before you assume.
Chunky I was actually on my way to youtube to see fmvs from all games to compare. Just didnt want to to wait to respond. Ill watch heroes and try to reply after lol. If not Ill definitley do so tommorow afternoon.
Chunky I was actually on my way to youtube to see fmvs from all games to compare. Just didnt want to to wait to respond. Ill watch heroes and try to reply after lol. If not Ill definitley do so tommorow afternoon.
Tekken is not a button masher game…it may seem that way from all the button mashers that play it…but if you went to tournaments back then, they were in no way button mashing
Oh, ok…>>
Hmm….
FMV-wise, I think FFVII did a beautiful job….
But the real-time renders have divided opinions….Some people believe that the real-time models are effective, and set the "feel" of the game well….others found the real-time models offensive… >>
I think what defines graphics as "good" isn’t really the technology and programming behind it….I think good graphics in a game are able to define and create a mood and setting that the developers wished….
That’s why….as outdated, technology-wise, some SNES graphics are…the graphics still are wonderful. Many of the SNES games had graphics that fit with the game nearly perfectly….=]
And the graphics weren’t "meh." I distinctly remember "whoa" moments watching some of the FMV’s. That didn’t happen with FFVII.
edit: Anyway, I’m through with this crap. I’m going to watch football.
edit: Anyway, I’m through with this crap. I’m going to watch football.
Well its reverse for us. You thought meh about FF7 and I thought meh about tekken. Even again 🙂
Heroes for me, Ill post tommorow.
edit: Anyway, I’m through with this crap. I’m going to watch football.
i also remember "woah" moments while playing the game itself
football + food + friends = good times
football + food + friends = good times
What game FF7? NICE!!!!! lol
<< I’ve never followed football myself…but so many people have fun while watching it….maybe I’ll look into it sometime…..
And I haven’t played Tekken 2 myself, so I can’t say anything about this…><
I’ve never really liked fighting games much…they’re mostly memorization and how long you can make combo before you have to pull out and block, or things like that….There isn’t really any visual lasting "work" that you’ve done except maybe high scores and your own experience….>> I like seeing my perfect games in RPGs….
follow the bread crumbs dude…it was in reference to Tekken =P
(watch in his next post he’ll make fun of me)
And Tekken games rock. I thought Yoshimitsu was one of the coolest,lol.
Another half-assed excuse.
I wasnt.
I think was just putting an idea out there for people to fuck around with.
Nothing against you Norse, but are you quite mad? 😯
The FMV’s in FFVII are clearly the worst of the series considering the time the game was brought out.
I wonder if you remember the one in Junon where Cloud climbs the lightning rod tower to Upper Junon.
In that FMV and others in the game, characters appeared in their field forms with slightly improved graphics. So basically, they were still block people, just better looking ones. Although there are (thankfully) some FMVs where this isn’t the case and the characters have proper detail, it’s still an unforgiveable flaw.
Contrast the FMVs of FFVII with those of FFVIII and you’ll understand how bad those of FFVII are.
I think nearly anyone who was a die-hard fan of FF7 would have seen the FMVs in 8 and dont need to be told to compare the two. This makes me think of my "half-assed excuse". After the success of 7 they really tried for 8, as they could have for 7.
Are you saying that the FMV’s in VII are good because they are retro? Fine, if they were released on a low-graphics console or format, such as the SNES. But as the first to be released on the PS1, surely that would have called for better quality visuals.
Why have FMVs if they aren’t going to be the best quality graphics?
I mean because FF7 was the FF for the new era or w/e, they may have made retro graphics so there was at least one retro element in peoples minds, or so they thought.
I bring all this up as what may have been squares opinions or ideas.
I dont deny the graphics were no good.
The FMV’s in FFVII are clearly the worst of the series considering the time the game was brought out.
I wonder if you remember the one in Junon where Cloud climbs the lightning rod tower to Upper Junon.
Oh….>>
That’s what I was talking about with the in-game models….
Those are also technically FMVs…but the FMVs I referred to were the Disc 1 spoiler, ending FMV, and those types….
I really like the in-game models…>> I thought they were a bit strange and almost repulsive at first, too…but I kind of started liking them after a while.
XP
I’ve said this earlier…but maybe some people didn’t catch it–
I notice that the graphics for FFVII are a sort of hit-miss thing for most people…Some people liked the real-time models, and felt that they set the "feel" of the game well….on the other hand, some found the real-time models offensive… >>
I also agree with Chrissss a bit–I thought that the reason they decided to make the characters blocky was because of the super-deformed style of the older FFs…>> They could have used the battle models instead (the battle models aren’t missing elbows and aren’t blocky or anything) but they decided not to….So that may have been one of the reasons….
(watch in his next post he’ll make fun of me)
Notice the lol. I was joking. Who’s the moron? *points at Joey
I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.
Over and over.
I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.
Over and over.
i’m guilty as charged…but i tend to post in reaction to others, and only when i feel like i have something to say
Over and over.
>>
I don’t know if that was necessary….
But it’s nice that you can let us know how above this you are by posting in here and talking about it. XP
EDIT: << Alright, what I just said was hardly necessary too. ><
But…this debate is still going for a reason–there’s something that’s unresolved….I’m trying to figure out what exactly it is….
I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.
Over and over.
If you think the thread is shit, you just made it worse with a post I dont think too many people, if any will give a shit about.
I just like to poke my head in and laugh at the starter of such a huge chain of bullshit with the same 4 people posting.
Over and over.
If you think iceberg is bad, you’re twice the fuckwit by posting here with nothing more than potshots at an easy target. He had his share of bullshit, we called him on it, and discussions start up, and you have to go and take a big dump in it just as the whole issue is about to be settled.
Good God, and I thought only GG4ever would pull such a stupid stunt.
Good God, and I thought only GG4ever would pull such a stupid stunt.
Easy target? hmmmmm
Nothing against iceberg325, he is actually an ok guy and all but this thread is shit and should have died a long time ago.
I never said I was above anybody for my last post.
But thank you all for dedicating this twenty-third page of such a thread to none other than me.
Nothing against iceberg325, he is actually an ok guy and all but this thread is shit and should have died a long time ago.
I never said I was above anybody for my last post.
But thank you all for dedicating this twenty-third page of such a thread to none other than me.
I think if it were that bad, it would have been closed a while back. Im an ok guy? So what was the moron comment about?
I just like to poke fun at the person who would create such a thread.
I meant no offense by it. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
I just like to poke fun at the person who would create such a thread.
I meant no offense by it. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
Indeed you hurt my feelings. So much that I actually had to set up some therapy appointments. YOU BASTARD!!!!!
Mods don’t close threads unless there’s a very compelling reason to. Stupid thread topics that are debated don’t get closed.